Build Stronger Connections through Active Listening with Deb Porter | RR281

Janice Porter: 00:00:02

Deb, hello everyone and welcome my guest

Janice Porter: 00:00:05

today is Deb Porter, a really dear friend of mine, I believe.

Janice Porter: 00:00:10

And even though we haven't known each other that long, I feel

Janice Porter: 00:00:12

like we have, and I think that's a tribute to her communication

Janice Porter: 00:00:18

skills, and in in in particular, listening, alright, this is

Janice Porter: 00:00:24

Deb's Bailey wick. I love that word and not, not used very

Janice Porter: 00:00:29

often. So first of all, welcome to the show, Deb.

Deb Porter: 00:00:32

Thank you so much, Janice. I'm excited to be here,

Janice Porter: 00:00:35

my pleasure, and so excited to have you. So in

Janice Porter: 00:00:38

your in your bio, you talk about, you think that soft

Janice Porter: 00:00:42

skills need to be reframed or re coined as essential skills, and

Janice Porter: 00:00:47

I totally agree with you. Back in the day, when I was working a

Janice Porter: 00:00:52

contract position for a long time as a trainer in the

Janice Porter: 00:00:56

telephone company, I used to teach soft skills, and those in

Janice Porter: 00:01:01

that context were telephone, courtesy, customer service,

Janice Porter: 00:01:09

things, listening was one of the things that was part of my my

Janice Porter: 00:01:13

course that I taught, and how to deal with difficult customers

Janice Porter: 00:01:17

and all these things. How can we say these are soft skills. They

Janice Porter: 00:01:21

are so totally essential to be able to work, communicate and

Janice Porter: 00:01:27

and, you know, treat people well. They're very, very

Janice Porter: 00:01:30

important. And so I know that in your company, I want you to tell

Janice Porter: 00:01:35

me about how this came about for you and how the focus is in

Janice Porter: 00:01:40

hold, hearing out life drama, which is the name of your

Janice Porter: 00:01:44

company, has become your mission. And so talk to me about

Janice Porter: 00:01:47

that. Oh my goodness. Tell my viewers about why should it be

Janice Porter: 00:01:52

an essential skill? Talk to me about that.

Deb Porter: 00:01:54

Well, first of all, I don't know if your listeners

Deb Porter: 00:01:56

might know, but in 1969 that's actually from the army, from the

Deb Porter: 00:02:01

military. That's where the the term soft skills was coined. And

Deb Porter: 00:02:05

so, yes, so I actually researched that, because I was

Deb Porter: 00:02:09

like, I need to know, where did this come from, and why, and why

Deb Porter: 00:02:12

has it stuck? And so I think because it was, you know, a

Deb Porter: 00:02:15

government term. And, you know, across our nation, it really

Deb Porter: 00:02:18

spread, and it dug into our to our frame of business. And I

Deb Porter: 00:02:21

just feel like what you said so beautifully in your example,

Deb Porter: 00:02:26

from you know, your earlier position, that communication is

Deb Porter: 00:02:32

life altering in all aspects of the business, whether it's in

Deb Porter: 00:02:36

customer service or in in sales or or whatever. So, yeah, how

Deb Porter: 00:02:41

did I so? How did I end up here? My background and training is

Deb Porter: 00:02:44

actually as a United Methodist pastor. I have a 96 hour master

Deb Porter: 00:02:47

divinity degree with a specialization in care and

Deb Porter: 00:02:50

counseling. That's where I get the the knowledge and the

Deb Porter: 00:02:52

authority to do what I do. And then, of course, through my

Deb Porter: 00:02:55

life, I've built upon that. I'm now 52 and I was working at a

Deb Porter: 00:03:00

funeral home. When I had the idea for my business, the

Deb Porter: 00:03:02

funeral home changed the compensation package they were

Deb Porter: 00:03:05

offering, and I was like, Okay, if I can do anything in my life

Deb Porter: 00:03:08

right now, what is it that I really want to do? And what came

Deb Porter: 00:03:11

to me as I was holding my towels was really, what if I just

Deb Porter: 00:03:14

listen? What if I just listen? I mean, it's so basic and so

Deb Porter: 00:03:17

human, but that's, that's kind of me, and that's who I am. I'm,

Deb Porter: 00:03:19

I'm really down to earth. And so, yeah, so I built a business

Deb Porter: 00:03:22

around listening,

Janice Porter: 00:03:24

amazing, really. But listening isn't just

Janice Porter: 00:03:26

listening. There. There are many ways that we listen or don't

Janice Porter: 00:03:32

listen. So Can you expound on that a little bit?

Deb Porter: 00:03:36

So a lot of times, people think that listening

Deb Porter: 00:03:39

starts with the other person, and what I teach is it does not

Deb Porter: 00:03:42

listening starts with you, and you have to come into a

Deb Porter: 00:03:46

conversation calm and ready to hear. And I think that's the

Deb Porter: 00:03:50

piece that most people don't get or and it can throw them off,

Deb Porter: 00:03:55

because if you haven't taken the time to be calm and centered at

Deb Porter: 00:03:58

the beginning of an interaction, then you're not able to stay

Deb Porter: 00:04:03

focused and clear through, throughout so

Janice Porter: 00:04:07

well, I would say today, what comes to mind when

Janice Porter: 00:04:09

you say that is, it's we make it so much harder for ourselves

Janice Porter: 00:04:13

today, for ourselves today with that exact example, because the

Janice Porter: 00:04:19

minute we sit down at a at a meeting or whatever, our phones

Janice Porter: 00:04:22

on our desk or on the table, and that's a distraction from the

Janice Porter: 00:04:27

word go. And I watched a great Simon Sinek video one time about

Janice Porter: 00:04:33

cell phones and and, and he said something like, and don't think

Janice Porter: 00:04:39

that because you turn your phone upside down on the table that it

Janice Porter: 00:04:42

makes any difference, your phone does not belong there. You know,

Janice Porter: 00:04:46

in that meeting, and we all do it. I did it last night. We I

Janice Porter: 00:04:49

was at a dinner thing, which was a networking event, and I saw

Janice Porter: 00:04:53

that some few of the other girls had put their phone out there.

Janice Porter: 00:04:56

Because sometimes, like I, I use it as an example to show. To

Janice Porter: 00:05:01

this LinkedIn tool that I use with the with the QR code that

Janice Porter: 00:05:05

people have, and I want to share it with them if it comes up,

Janice Porter: 00:05:08

but, and I don't have business cards anymore, because I use my

Janice Porter: 00:05:11

phone as that, but, but it's not right, because it's distracts us

Janice Porter: 00:05:16

from listening, from what I know you call them, what I know to be

Janice Porter: 00:05:19

active listening. Yes, right? Yeah, exactly,

Deb Porter: 00:05:23

yeah. So active. So what do we mean when we're

Deb Porter: 00:05:27

talking about active listening? What does that exactly mean? So

Deb Porter: 00:05:30

active listening is the art of fully engaging both with content

Deb Porter: 00:05:33

and emotion. Let's to do the definition. That's my

Deb Porter: 00:05:36

definition. The I'll say it again, the art of fully engaging

Deb Porter: 00:05:40

with the content and the emotions. So I think a lot of

Deb Porter: 00:05:43

times, I've had questions come back from people and they're

Deb Porter: 00:05:47

saying, you know, this person just keeps going on and on and

Deb Porter: 00:05:50

on and on and on. I just don't get why. They don't understand

Deb Porter: 00:05:52

that I'm hearing them. And what I offer is are, are you making

Deb Porter: 00:05:56

sure to reflect back to them the feeling of what they're saying?

Deb Porter: 00:05:59

Because you you're getting the content, but unless they

Deb Porter: 00:06:01

understand that the feeling is also heard, they're not going to

Deb Porter: 00:06:04

be able to move on. So and then I see light bulbs come on. They

Deb Porter: 00:06:08

go, Oh no, I didn't actually well.

Janice Porter: 00:06:11

And also they that kind of person finds it

Janice Porter: 00:06:14

difficult to not interrupt, but to get into the flow of that

Janice Porter: 00:06:19

conversation, they let the person continue and continue and

Janice Porter: 00:06:23

continue. And sometimes people do that because they're nervous

Janice Porter: 00:06:26

or because they because the person that hasn't drawn right

Janice Porter: 00:06:30

hasn't been drawn in or whatever. So I think it takes

Janice Porter: 00:06:33

both parties for sure. But you you talked about you don't know

Janice Porter: 00:06:37

if you're being heard. And I think there's a difference

Janice Porter: 00:06:40

between hearing and listening 100% Yeah. Okay, so I just

Janice Porter: 00:06:43

wanted to clarify that, because I could hear you but not have

Janice Porter: 00:06:47

listened to anything you said. I remember when my daughter, one

Janice Porter: 00:06:50

of my daughters, was was little, and I was working and and I was

Janice Porter: 00:06:54

always, you know, distracted because I had to get lunches

Janice Porter: 00:07:00

made, or I had to get the dishes done, or I had to get dinner

Janice Porter: 00:07:03

made, or whatever. And that's the time after school between,

Janice Porter: 00:07:06

you know, when you're preparing dinner, when the kids will come

Janice Porter: 00:07:09

to you and want to share something with you, and you make

Janice Porter: 00:07:12

the mistake quite often of listening while you're doing

Janice Porter: 00:07:16

something else, but you're not really listening, so you miss

Janice Porter: 00:07:20

it, right? And it's not fair to the child. And I think I

Janice Porter: 00:07:24

remember, I think one time my daughter said to me, I'll tell

Janice Porter: 00:07:29

you later when you when, when I think you're listening, you

Janice Porter: 00:07:32

know? And then the light bulb goes on there, too, right? It's

Janice Porter: 00:07:35

like, oh, wait, I need to have full attention when I'm talking

Janice Porter: 00:07:38

and listening with my or having a conversation with my child.

Janice Porter: 00:07:41

That's so important, right? More than any of these business

Janice Porter: 00:07:44

things, as far as I'm concerned, but it's one of those examples,

Janice Porter: 00:07:47

right? Well, and

Deb Porter: 00:07:48

I think it happens in business too. I can give you

Deb Porter: 00:07:52

an example from the funeral home. I experienced a colleague

Deb Porter: 00:07:55

who was frustrating me, and I finally it escalated to the

Deb Porter: 00:08:01

point where I felt I needed to go speak to the manager. I was

Deb Porter: 00:08:03

going to explode, which is very rare for me. Like, imagine how

Deb Porter: 00:08:07

extreme this was, because it was pretty rare for me. And so I

Deb Porter: 00:08:10

went and knocked on his door, and he was doing something, and

Deb Porter: 00:08:13

I said, I need some I need some of your time to talk about a

Deb Porter: 00:08:16

thing. Do you have time to do that? And he was like, typing

Deb Porter: 00:08:19

away doing something else he's like, but he, he was able to

Deb Porter: 00:08:24

say, give me one minute to finish this, and then I'll be

Deb Porter: 00:08:27

able to focus on you. And then he really did. He he shifted his

Deb Porter: 00:08:30

whole body language, everything he did let me know, okay, you

Deb Porter: 00:08:35

now have my full attention, and let's, let's really hear this.

Deb Porter: 00:08:39

And that's really powerful, because as a manager, he needed

Deb Porter: 00:08:42

to hear how to present, yeah, so. But you know, if he had just

Deb Porter: 00:08:48

said, Oh, well, you know what? What is it? And continued to

Deb Porter: 00:08:50

type his message, which he had done other times in the past,

Deb Porter: 00:08:53

and it was the way I framed it. I need your attention right now.

Deb Porter: 00:08:58

My experience with that was different, so I think managers

Deb Porter: 00:09:01

really need to tune in, pay attention. I mean, I think

Deb Porter: 00:09:04

parents too. There's not that we ever want to just ignore, but

Deb Porter: 00:09:07

really know those important we don't want to miss those

Deb Porter: 00:09:11

important moments ever well. And

Janice Porter: 00:09:13

we're teaching that, that we're teaching that

Janice Porter: 00:09:17

way of doing things too. If we show that we're paying attention

Janice Porter: 00:09:21

fully, then they will learn to do the same, right? And I know

Janice Porter: 00:09:25

that when it comes to an old tool, the telephone, which I

Janice Porter: 00:09:31

still love to use, because that was my first go to when I was

Janice Porter: 00:09:36

first starting out in business, showing my age now, but the

Janice Porter: 00:09:38

telephone, and I still love the telephone, and when I call

Janice Porter: 00:09:43

somebody, and sometimes I do, sometimes I get a prompting to

Janice Porter: 00:09:47

call somebody, like I'm on LinkedIn and I'm looking at

Janice Porter: 00:09:49

something, and I see that they're online, or I so possibly

Janice Porter: 00:09:55

at their desk, and I'll just look and see if there's a phone

Janice Porter: 00:09:58

number, or if I you know. Um, I don't know. I just get a

Janice Porter: 00:10:01

prompting to call someone, but when I do, and I and if they

Janice Porter: 00:10:05

answer, the first thing I always say is, thank you so much for

Janice Porter: 00:10:08

picking up the bone, because it's such a rare thing. Although

Janice Porter: 00:10:12

I think it's coming back, I really do. However, when they

Janice Porter: 00:10:16

do, I do ask them, Do you have a couple of minutes? Because if

Janice Porter: 00:10:21

they don't, I'm not going to start rambling on, right?

Janice Porter: 00:10:24

Because then they're really not going to like it and they're not

Janice Porter: 00:10:27

going to listen. So that's, that's the key, right? Okay, so

Janice Porter: 00:10:31

you have the privilege of, in your work, listening to many

Janice Porter: 00:10:35

personal dramas through your platform. What are some common

Janice Porter: 00:10:40

themes that you've noticed in the stories that people share,

Janice Porter: 00:10:42

and how have these impacted your perspective on relationships?

Janice Porter: 00:10:47

Because, you know, I'm all about relationships.

Deb Porter: 00:10:51

Yeah, so going to the B to C side of the business,

Deb Porter: 00:10:54

I'll shift shift my mindset a little bit the the common theme,

Deb Porter: 00:10:58

there's a lot of fear of judgment among people. And a lot

Deb Porter: 00:11:02

of people are coming and saying, you know, I just really couldn't

Deb Porter: 00:11:05

talk to my family about this. They wouldn't understand. Or I,

Deb Porter: 00:11:09

I knew they would give me advice when that's really not what I

Deb Porter: 00:11:12

need. Those, those two things are very common, on the person

Deb Porter: 00:11:18

the drum, yeah, on the personal side, on the drama side. Yeah,

Deb Porter: 00:11:21

okay, and yeah, is

Janice Porter: 00:11:23

it? Is it easy? Do you believe then? Because I

Janice Porter: 00:11:26

do that, it's easier sometimes to talk to a stranger than it is

Janice Porter: 00:11:29

to talk to someone who's really close and has a bias already?

Deb Porter: 00:11:33

Yeah, I think there's a place for both. And we

Deb Porter: 00:11:36

need both. We're humans. We need relationships, as you well know.

Deb Porter: 00:11:40

Yeah, so, but there are times that things come up and they're,

Deb Porter: 00:11:43

you know, family, friends or co workers, are too close to the

Deb Porter: 00:11:46

problem, like they're involved in it, or worse, they really are

Deb Porter: 00:11:49

the problem, and you can't talk to them about them about it.

Deb Porter: 00:11:51

You've already tried, and there hasn't been a resolution yet,

Deb Porter: 00:11:54

and it's still a little bit stuck. And so having the

Deb Porter: 00:11:57

opportunity then to really talk that through can be so

Deb Porter: 00:12:00

beneficial?

Janice Porter: 00:12:01

Okay, let's shift it to the business side. Now a

Janice Porter: 00:12:03

little bit. How do you think listening and empathy skills,

Janice Porter: 00:12:08

essential for your platform, translate into stronger

Janice Porter: 00:12:12

professional relationships, especially in leadership or team

Janice Porter: 00:12:15

dynamics? Let

Deb Porter: 00:12:17

me give you an example from a team training

Deb Porter: 00:12:19

that I did. The gentleman asked the question, how do I offer

Deb Porter: 00:12:22

empathy to the CEO who I just think is expletive deleted? And

Deb Porter: 00:12:30

I was like, well, that's great. That's a great question. How do

Deb Porter: 00:12:33

you do that? Like, what do you what do you think it's like in

Deb Porter: 00:12:35

his role right now? And so we really started to just think

Deb Porter: 00:12:39

about, have, have you had an opportunity to interact with

Deb Porter: 00:12:43

him, very much on a personal level? Have you Do you know much

Deb Porter: 00:12:47

about what the pressures are in his life, in his role? And I

Deb Porter: 00:12:51

started to offer questions and further, like develop that, and

Deb Porter: 00:12:55

kind of develop a persona of of a guy that he really hadn't seen

Deb Porter: 00:12:58

as a person. He saw him as this thing, but he didn't understand

Deb Porter: 00:13:02

that he might be responding as a as a result of the pressures he

Deb Porter: 00:13:05

felt in in the role, and he might actually be trying to

Deb Porter: 00:13:08

protect this gentleman. And he was missing that. He wasn't even

Deb Porter: 00:13:12

seeing that. And so we can develop empathy by really

Deb Porter: 00:13:16

looking all the way around what, what it is that they're

Deb Porter: 00:13:19

presenting us what, and then starting to wonder, okay, well,

Deb Porter: 00:13:23

how,

Janice Porter: 00:13:24

what are they presenting? What

Deb Porter: 00:13:25

are they exactly? Yeah, well, and that can get

Deb Porter: 00:13:28

tricky, because what you don't want to do is make assumptions

Deb Porter: 00:13:30

about people that's that's never better, but asking questions and

Deb Porter: 00:13:34

getting you know, curiosity, I know, is one of your things,

Deb Porter: 00:13:39

yeah, and so I think that's super important. When we get

Deb Porter: 00:13:42

curious and we we suspend our judgment a little bit, and we

Deb Porter: 00:13:45

start to look all the way around the problem, then we can get

Deb Porter: 00:13:48

somewhere, somewhere new and different, and have empathy,

Deb Porter: 00:13:51

exactly as you said, for for someone else that it's a

Deb Porter: 00:13:54

struggle with.

Janice Porter: 00:13:56

Okay? So as someone who listens to life's

Janice Porter: 00:14:01

many dramas. How do you handle your own emotional balance while

Janice Porter: 00:14:05

being so involved in others experiences?

Deb Porter: 00:14:09

So as I stated at the beginning, I am a spiritual

Deb Porter: 00:14:12

person. So that's that's a part of who I am and what I do. And

Deb Porter: 00:14:15

so I have a very strong meditation practice that I start

Deb Porter: 00:14:19

my morning with, and I understand that if I don't take

Deb Porter: 00:14:22

care of me, I don't have anything to pour out of so

Deb Porter: 00:14:25

before this conversation, you may have noticed that I was into

Deb Porter: 00:14:27

the Zoom Room five minutes ahead of time, and so I was already

Deb Porter: 00:14:30

doing some centering things for myself before this conversation

Deb Porter: 00:14:33

to make sure I was at my best to be able to present to you and

Deb Porter: 00:14:36

your audience something that was really powerful,

Janice Porter: 00:14:39

perfect. Thank you. So what are your hopes for

Janice Porter: 00:14:44

the future of hold hearing out life drama? I know I think

Janice Porter: 00:14:50

you've got some exciting projects or collaborations on

Janice Porter: 00:14:52

the horizon, anything you'd like to share with us?

Deb Porter: 00:14:55

Oh my goodness. So I'm really excited about the

Deb Porter: 00:14:59

part. Partnerships with lawyers that we've got started, and the

Deb Porter: 00:15:05

whole concept around that is, you know, lawyers are went into

Deb Porter: 00:15:10

it because they wanted to uphold the law and help people and but

Deb Porter: 00:15:15

as I understand their background and training, they were taught

Deb Porter: 00:15:17

the law, but they weren't necessarily taught the emotional

Deb Porter: 00:15:19

intelligence skills, and so a lot of them got thrown into the

Deb Porter: 00:15:22

deep end without knowing how to do the active listening and the

Deb Porter: 00:15:26

emotional intelligence piece is really required. And they can

Deb Porter: 00:15:29

feel really overwhelmed by all of that. It can feel like, for

Deb Porter: 00:15:33

example, one, one woman wrote, you know, I just spent the last,

Deb Porter: 00:15:38

I don't know, six months, nine months, on this woman's case,

Deb Porter: 00:15:41

and I wrote 85 I think it was 85 emails. It was a ridiculous

Deb Porter: 00:15:46

amount. And, you know, answering, showing up in court,

Deb Porter: 00:15:48

doing all the things, and she won and and the Google review

Deb Porter: 00:15:51

that she left was that I did a good job. Like, what, what do

Deb Porter: 00:15:54

these people want from me? And what, what people want from you

Deb Porter: 00:15:58

is really that active listening and that emotional intelligence,

Deb Porter: 00:16:01

and when you present that, that's what's really going to

Deb Porter: 00:16:03

connect and give you that excellent review. Yeah, for

Deb Porter: 00:16:06

sure. Okay, so

Janice Porter: 00:16:07

we're talking about a specific type of

Janice Porter: 00:16:09

attorney here, or lawyer, a divorce and family lawyer, okay,

Janice Porter: 00:16:14

and, and I know exactly what you're talking about. They, they

Janice Porter: 00:16:18

can come across as very stiff or very left brain, all left brain,

Janice Porter: 00:16:27

right? You don't see any emotion. But now I forgot what I

Janice Porter: 00:16:31

was going to say. What was I going to say? Oh, that is the, I

Janice Porter: 00:16:38

don't know. There's a fine line right between them, having to be

Janice Porter: 00:16:42

in control for you when you're having all the emotional upset

Janice Porter: 00:16:46

about what you're going through, but that empathy piece again,

Janice Porter: 00:16:51

come needs to be there. You know, I can know you're

Janice Porter: 00:16:54

listening to me, but I don't know that you actually care, or

Janice Porter: 00:16:57

I'm just another case number. So that's the important piece for

Janice Porter: 00:17:01

me. I think there, and I've been through through that, so I I

Janice Porter: 00:17:05

totally identify. But do you find that the lawyers or

Janice Porter: 00:17:14

attorneys that you're that are coming your way are female, or

Janice Porter: 00:17:18

are they male and female?

Deb Porter: 00:17:21

At this time, I see a lot more interest on the how,

Deb Porter: 00:17:24

on, on the male side, I would say it's probably, uh, 7525 75%

Deb Porter: 00:17:30

male. It's, it's strongly leaning that way in terms of the

Deb Porter: 00:17:33

business. It also strongly leans that way in terms of my, the

Deb Porter: 00:17:36

personal side of my business, that is entirely female. Um,

Deb Porter: 00:17:40

that's, but that's way more skewed 97%

Janice Porter: 00:17:44

Wow. Okay, yeah, okay,

Janice Porter: 00:17:53

okay, so let's just elaborate on that, just a little bit, because

Janice Porter: 00:17:56

I think it's a great partnership. So if not not

Janice Porter: 00:18:00

saying I have divorce attorneys as my audience, but one never

Janice Porter: 00:18:03

knows there may be somebody out there listening. But what would

Janice Porter: 00:18:07

you say are the key benefits of partnering with someone like you

Janice Porter: 00:18:11

to support their clients beyond the legal framework?

Deb Porter: 00:18:15

I think that the first benefit is, of course, the

Deb Porter: 00:18:19

calm mind. Because if, if a client's able to have a

Deb Porter: 00:18:24

conversation with myself or one of my colleagues and really be

Deb Porter: 00:18:29

heard, they'll be able to come into the meeting with you with a

Deb Porter: 00:18:32

clear mind, and instead of presenting all of this having

Deb Porter: 00:18:36

that emotional dysregulation, they'll be able to to create

Deb Porter: 00:18:40

that more quickly and maintain it throughout.

Janice Porter: 00:18:45

Do you think that is part of your work then going

Janice Porter: 00:18:48

to be or is it working with their clients, with the with the

Janice Porter: 00:18:53

actual client, or is it strictly working with the attorney to

Janice Porter: 00:18:57

help them with the skills they need to be a better divorce

Janice Porter: 00:19:01

lawyer. Let's say,

Deb Porter: 00:19:03

Well, if the attorney is is open to learning

Deb Porter: 00:19:07

that, yes, 100% then then that mentoring is open and available.

Deb Porter: 00:19:10

But the actual offer on the landing page right now is

Deb Porter: 00:19:14

specifically combining our ebook along with the listening

Deb Porter: 00:19:17

appointments for their clients. Got it? Okay?

Janice Porter: 00:19:20

So I something, I ask people a lot, because I

Janice Porter: 00:19:26

remember talking, or I told you, I taught listening as part of

Janice Porter: 00:19:32

the cus the telephone, courtesy that I taught, and it was used,

Janice Porter: 00:19:37

it was mostly around the telephone, right? Because it was

Janice Porter: 00:19:39

the telephone company that I worked for, so we did a lot of

Janice Porter: 00:19:42

telephone training, and I had a book and account I didn't find

Janice Porter: 00:19:46

it again. It's in my shelf somewhere about active

Janice Porter: 00:19:49

listening. And the very first thing that the guy talks about

Janice Porter: 00:19:52

is the the acronym for the word or the an anagram for the word

Janice Porter: 00:19:58

listen. Do. You know, you probably know it the anagram for

Janice Porter: 00:20:02

the word listen.

Deb Porter: 00:20:03

I don't actually silent. I have heard that

Deb Porter: 00:20:10

actually now that you say that, I'm like, Oh yeah, light bulb,

Janice Porter: 00:20:12

though, isn't that? Like,

Deb Porter: 00:20:14

yes.

Janice Porter: 00:20:14

How did that happen? Like, that's like,

Janice Porter: 00:20:16

that's just so interesting to me, just that whole concept,

Janice Porter: 00:20:19

because when you're listening, you need to be silent. And I

Janice Porter: 00:20:23

don't get it. I like, how did that happen to me? That's just a

Janice Porter: 00:20:27

quirk and that somebody noticed it, you know? I

Deb Porter: 00:20:32

think it's the universe playing with us.

Deb Porter: 00:20:34

Actually,

Janice Porter: 00:20:35

there are no accidents right there. Okay? I

Janice Porter: 00:20:41

just thought that was kind of fun. So do you have, and this is

Janice Porter: 00:20:47

putting you on the spot, but you can say no if you don't. But do

Janice Porter: 00:20:50

you have any a story of somebody that you, that you know really,

Janice Porter: 00:21:00

that you really helped and taught what they needed, that

Janice Porter: 00:21:04

sent them on their way a better person. Oh, it was so great,

Deb Porter: 00:21:07

because I love that you asked this question because

Deb Porter: 00:21:09

I had a conversation actually, with a mentee last night. We

Deb Porter: 00:21:12

happened to connect again, and she said, Oh my gosh, Deb, I was

Deb Porter: 00:21:16

using the skills that you taught me just today at the end of her

Deb Porter: 00:21:20

work day she had had. So she's a sales professional, and she

Deb Porter: 00:21:23

takes inbound calls for a health health company, health health

Deb Porter: 00:21:27

company selling products. And she ended up on a call with a

Deb Porter: 00:21:33

very irate client who had been mistreated by one of her

Deb Porter: 00:21:39

colleagues, and was they were very, very angry, and she said

Deb Porter: 00:21:44

that she applied absolutely everything I had taught her in

Deb Porter: 00:21:48

the conversation. And at the end, the person said, can I just

Deb Porter: 00:21:53

work with you directly? Can I just, can I just have your Can I

Deb Porter: 00:21:55

have your direct line and just do all my sales through you? And

Deb Porter: 00:22:00

she said, and debit, and debit only took 10 minutes. It only

Deb Porter: 00:22:04

took 10 minutes. And I was like, yes, that's that's the power of

Deb Porter: 00:22:08

listening. This is what this is what it is people. And it's just

Deb Porter: 00:22:11

so fun and so beautiful. And she was so happy, because, as she

Deb Porter: 00:22:15

applies it in her work, she understands now she doesn't have

Deb Porter: 00:22:17

to fix people's problems. She She understands because before,

Deb Porter: 00:22:20

when we started working she had all of this weight that she was

Deb Porter: 00:22:22

carrying, and she was like, dragging their problems along

Deb Porter: 00:22:25

with her. Like, you don't have to do that. Don't do that.

Deb Porter: 00:22:27

There's a better way. Let me show you how. So anyway, we work

Deb Porter: 00:22:30

together. She learned a lot of things. She applies it now, and,

Deb Porter: 00:22:33

yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:22:33

it's good. That's amazing. Okay, so that you need

Janice Porter: 00:22:36

to help me here, because customer service and customer

Janice Porter: 00:22:40

service issues just really rile me up when they're when I don't

Janice Porter: 00:22:44

get good customer service, because I used to teach it, so I

Janice Porter: 00:22:47

right, and it's so different today than it was okay, and

Janice Porter: 00:22:51

nobody seems to care. Because you can't find you can't talk to

Janice Porter: 00:22:55

anybody in so many sorry, in so many instances, you can't talk

Janice Porter: 00:23:00

to anybody. You have to, you know, talk online, chat online

Janice Porter: 00:23:06

or email, which drives me crazy. I want to talk to someone, so

Janice Porter: 00:23:10

they're great. When they when you want to buy something,

Janice Porter: 00:23:12

they'll talk to you. But when you want to fix something, they

Janice Porter: 00:23:15

really okay. So I've had this ongoing issue with my cable

Janice Porter: 00:23:20

company, Shaw, and I will say Shaw, which is here locally, but

Janice Porter: 00:23:25

it was just bought by they just merged with another company, and

Janice Porter: 00:23:28

the service has gone down the tubes. And when you do finally

Janice Porter: 00:23:33

get hold of somebody, you want them to care. They may not be

Janice Porter: 00:23:38

able to fix the problem themselves, but you just want

Janice Porter: 00:23:42

them to care, not real off the the response that they've got

Janice Porter: 00:23:47

written on a piece of paper that says, I'm so sorry that you've

Janice Porter: 00:23:50

had this. I don't get, you know, don't give me that just right,

Janice Porter: 00:23:55

right? So how do you deal with that? What do you do when you

Janice Porter: 00:23:59

come up against that? Because I'm ready to kill so I have to,

Janice Porter: 00:24:03

you know, I have to, first of all say to them, Look, I know

Janice Porter: 00:24:07

it's not your fault. I know you're reading from here, or

Janice Porter: 00:24:10

you're doing this because you're and you're being recorded, but I

Janice Porter: 00:24:13

just want somebody to help me.

Deb Porter: 00:24:16

That's where the story of the thrashed potatoes

Deb Porter: 00:24:18

in my family came from. So I actually had a really bad so my

Deb Porter: 00:24:24

husband was sick. We're now divorced, but my husband was

Deb Porter: 00:24:27

sick for very sick for eight years, and I had an experience

Deb Porter: 00:24:30

where I was trying to resolve a medical issue for him that was

Deb Porter: 00:24:33

so frustrating. It was incredibly frustrating. And I

Deb Porter: 00:24:36

was also fixing, trying to fix dinner and care for my kids

Deb Porter: 00:24:39

while I was caring for the sick man, and at the end of the call,

Deb Porter: 00:24:44

I thrashed the potatoes. I didn't match them. I thrashed

Deb Porter: 00:24:46

them. And so now it's a whole joke among our family. Anyway,

Deb Porter: 00:24:50

yeah, so how do I deal with it? Obviously, much like you, the

Deb Porter: 00:24:56

frustration grows, right? Because it's before you ever get

Deb Porter: 00:24:59

to the person. You're already dysregulated because you're

Deb Porter: 00:25:02

frustrated because you had to push crap. Was it three or was

Deb Porter: 00:25:06

it? Is it actually a number two issue, like, which, like trying

Deb Porter: 00:25:09

to understand their system so and then when you finally do get

Deb Porter: 00:25:14

a person, sometimes they disconnect. I've had that happen

Deb Porter: 00:25:19

that's incredibly, oh man, don't start on that. That's really,

Deb Porter: 00:25:22

really, yeah, you know, those, those people that pass the hot

Deb Porter: 00:25:26

potato, that's what I call it in my trainings like, you know,

Deb Porter: 00:25:29

like, hot potato, hot potato, hot potato. Somebody take the

Deb Porter: 00:25:32

time. Doesn't take long. Everybody thinks it's going to

Deb Porter: 00:25:35

take this long time to deal with this angry person. It doesn't.

Deb Porter: 00:25:38

It doesn't take a long time. It takes knowing what to do and how

Deb Porter: 00:25:41

to do it in a kind, compassionate way, to share, to

Deb Porter: 00:25:45

share some a little bit of empathy and and be honest and

Deb Porter: 00:25:50

authentic like and you know, managers need to be telling

Deb Porter: 00:25:54

people it's okay if you don't know the answer, send you know

Deb Porter: 00:25:57

that it's okay if you don't know the answer. And so this is part

Deb Porter: 00:26:00

of, you know, again, you've done training for teams. I've that's

Deb Porter: 00:26:04

part of what I'm doing now, training teams. How do we

Deb Porter: 00:26:07

deescalate these dragons that, come on, that come on, and it's

Deb Porter: 00:26:10

because it's an art. It is.

Janice Porter: 00:26:13

I mean, I finally, after three or four or

Janice Porter: 00:26:16

five times of waiting on hold at least an hour and a half. One

Janice Porter: 00:26:20

time 30 minutes, another time 30 minutes, and I can't stay. I

Janice Porter: 00:26:23

gotta go. I got things to do, and then I finally decided to

Janice Porter: 00:26:28

call the department that renegotiated my contract with

Janice Porter: 00:26:32

me, rather than the customer service department, because they

Janice Porter: 00:26:36

were real quick. So I did, and they answered, and I went, This

Janice Porter: 00:26:41

is amazing. I said, very interesting. And the guy said,

Janice Porter: 00:26:43

but you're in the wrong department. I said, I know, I

Janice Porter: 00:26:46

know I'm in the wrong department because I can't get through to

Janice Porter: 00:26:49

the right department. And the guy ended up being quite nice

Janice Porter: 00:26:55

about it. And he said, I'll transfer you. I said, Nope,

Janice Porter: 00:26:57

don't transfer me, and not unless you're going to stay on

Janice Porter: 00:26:59

hold until I get somebody right, because I'm not like. He said,

Janice Porter: 00:27:02

Listen. He said, If I transfer you to the customer service

Janice Porter: 00:27:06

department, you'll get through fairly quickly because you've

Janice Porter: 00:27:10

come from another department. I said, you're kidding. He said,

Janice Porter: 00:27:14

No, it's just the way it is. So I said, Okay, he transfers me, I

Janice Porter: 00:27:19

get through in two minutes. Wow. I'm like, I don't believe it.

Janice Porter: 00:27:23

What am I going to do next time? I'm not going to call customer

Janice Porter: 00:27:26

service. I'm going to call there and do the same thing again.

Janice Porter: 00:27:28

Because I can't believe that was so ridiculous. So yeah, but then

Janice Porter: 00:27:35

I finally got some satisfaction, because this girl did care, and

Janice Porter: 00:27:38

she did listen, and she, you know, assured me that she would

Janice Porter: 00:27:41

stay with me till my problem was solved. But the when you get so

Janice Porter: 00:27:47

frustrated, the first person that gets you gets all of that,

Janice Porter: 00:27:51

yes, they do. Yeah. So yes,

Deb Porter: 00:27:53

yes, they do. And it's the wise person, the one on

Deb Porter: 00:27:56

the front line that's getting that they have to understand

Deb Porter: 00:28:00

that it's not theirs to carry and it's theirs to do the best

Deb Porter: 00:28:06

they can in that moment, and believe that by doing that, they

Deb Porter: 00:28:10

have helped, and that's what matters

Janice Porter: 00:28:14

Well, and that's, yeah, sorry, go ahead. That's

Deb Porter: 00:28:17

how you go home at the end of the day and feel

Deb Porter: 00:28:19

satisfied. That's how you go home at the end of the day, and

Deb Porter: 00:28:21

you're not bringing all of this junk home with you through the

Deb Porter: 00:28:24

front door to your kids, yeah, or your dog, or whatever.

Janice Porter: 00:28:27

And a good job in what you do. Right? I think

Janice Porter: 00:28:31

today, though, here's a question for you, last question before I

Janice Porter: 00:28:33

get to something else, do you notice a difference when you're

Janice Porter: 00:28:40

training teams today, then maybe a few years ago, because,

Janice Porter: 00:28:47

because of the digital world, because things have changed so

Janice Porter: 00:28:50

much, because we can't get through to anybody and all of

Janice Porter: 00:28:53

that, and because of the generation that we're working

Janice Porter: 00:28:56

with in often younger Things are different. I feel like they

Janice Porter: 00:29:02

don't have the same empathy skills, the same listening

Janice Porter: 00:29:07

skills today,

Deb Porter: 00:29:09

yeah, since I've started my business, I've I have

Deb Porter: 00:29:13

created the core, which is what I teach, and the emotional

Deb Porter: 00:29:17

intelligence pieces are kind of baked into that and for me, and

Deb Porter: 00:29:22

what I found is, when you really listen to where someone's

Deb Porter: 00:29:27

starting from the interaction, that's where it's rich, right?

Deb Porter: 00:29:32

Starting starting from that, just like I talked about with

Deb Porter: 00:29:34

this other client, right? Started from where she was,

Deb Porter: 00:29:37

helped her get to where she needed to go. And just depends

Deb Porter: 00:29:41

on where they're starting from, what they really need from, from

Deb Porter: 00:29:44

me, and you see a

Janice Porter: 00:29:46

resistance at all with the younger people, or do

Janice Porter: 00:29:48

you see a tuning out at all because they everything's very

Janice Porter: 00:29:53

quick today, right? And so they might be listening to what

Janice Porter: 00:29:57

you're talking about. They're on their phone at the same time.

Deb Porter: 00:30:00

Hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fun, because they,

Deb Porter: 00:30:04

they got permission for that when they were in school, and

Deb Porter: 00:30:06

so, yeah, they're, they're bringing it into the workplace

Deb Porter: 00:30:08

now, and that's a whole thing. Yes, indeed. Sorry, teachers out

Deb Porter: 00:30:11

there, if there's a teacher listening in, I don't know. I

Deb Porter: 00:30:14

don't know. Just, just

Janice Porter: 00:30:16

mandated here where I live, that phones aren't

Janice Porter: 00:30:18

allowed in the classroom anymore. But there's no

Janice Porter: 00:30:22

consistency about how it's being regulated. So it's going to be a

Janice Porter: 00:30:26

disaster. But anyway, it's another story. But yeah, so, so

Janice Porter: 00:30:29

do you find a difference then?

Deb Porter: 00:30:31

Yeah, there. There really is I. I attempt, in all

Deb Porter: 00:30:36

of my teaching and all of my training to be short and quick

Deb Porter: 00:30:39

and to make it. You know, it doesn't take a long time to

Deb Porter: 00:30:43

learn what I teach. It just takes practice and intention. I

Deb Porter: 00:30:45

really believe that, and because I do that, I really feel like

Deb Porter: 00:30:50

it's applicable to any any person of any age. Only Did you

Deb Porter: 00:30:53

know, only 2% of people, at least in the US have have ever

Deb Porter: 00:30:56

had any active listening training at all. 2% isn't that

Deb Porter: 00:31:00

astounding. It's not taught in our schools. Only 2% the that

Deb Porter: 00:31:04

kind of just blows my mind. That statistics probably about eight

Deb Porter: 00:31:07

years old, now nine years old, so I maybe it's gone up. I would

Deb Porter: 00:31:10

like to believe that I'm a part of that change, and I'm going to

Deb Porter: 00:31:13

change that a lot. But yeah, oh,

Janice Porter: 00:31:16

wow, yeah, that's that goes back to I'll tell you

Janice Porter: 00:31:22

when I think you're listening, because it's true. Yeah, that's

Janice Porter: 00:31:27

amazing. That's very sad, actually. Okay, this is so much

Janice Porter: 00:31:31

fun. I could talk about this forever, because I think it's

Janice Porter: 00:31:34

such an important skill and to do properly and and, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:31:39

even like, I have a little granddaughter who's the light of

Janice Porter: 00:31:42

my life, and she's just starting school, and all of the sort of

Janice Porter: 00:31:46

preschool training and the you know, the things that you teach

Janice Porter: 00:31:49

them when they're toddlers and whatever at home, if we can

Janice Porter: 00:31:52

teach them to listen and to act accordingly, or to learn

Janice Porter: 00:31:57

something by listening, as opposed to by seeing as well.

Janice Porter: 00:32:00

They get those that practice and so on. It's an ongoing thing.

Janice Porter: 00:32:04

It's a skill that we have to learn. And that's really

Janice Porter: 00:32:08

interesting that you that there's only 2% did you say 2%

Janice Porter: 00:32:12

Wow.

Deb Porter: 00:32:14

Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:32:15

amazing. Okay, how can people get hold of you?

Janice Porter: 00:32:17

And then I've got one last question for you. How can people

Janice Porter: 00:32:19

share?

Deb Porter: 00:32:20

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. Of course you can find

Deb Porter: 00:32:23

me there, and if you want to send me an email, I'd love to

Deb Porter: 00:32:26

read it, info at hearing at life drama.com,

Janice Porter: 00:32:29

and I will put those that that on the show

Janice Porter: 00:32:33

notes. Okay, two last questions. I lied. First one, you know that

Janice Porter: 00:32:37

I love curiosity. It's my favorite thing. Two part

Janice Porter: 00:32:41

question. One, do you believe that curiosity is innate or

Janice Porter: 00:32:47

learned? And part two, what are you most curious about today?

Deb Porter: 00:32:53

I believe curiosity is innate. I believe we're born

Deb Porter: 00:32:56

with it. I believe a lot of us were taught away from it and

Deb Porter: 00:32:59

taught not to be that. Yeah, I'll leave that there. And then

Deb Porter: 00:33:08

the second part of your question one

Janice Porter: 00:33:09

more time was, what are you most curious about

Janice Porter: 00:33:11

these days?

Deb Porter: 00:33:20

I just love following. The next question. I

Deb Porter: 00:33:22

just love following. So like this morning, I was working with

Deb Porter: 00:33:25

my business partner, Linda, and we were writing blog posts for

Deb Porter: 00:33:29

LinkedIn, and she had an idea, and it led to another question,

Deb Porter: 00:33:32

another question, another question. I just love to follow.

Deb Porter: 00:33:34

That that's what brings me so much joy and allowing myself,

Deb Porter: 00:33:38

because that's really if you think about it, that's how we

Deb Porter: 00:33:41

started. That's how we were as kids, and we just allowed

Deb Porter: 00:33:43

ourselves to follow that. And so that's really what I'm about

Deb Porter: 00:33:46

working on now in my life, is allowing myself the joy of

Deb Porter: 00:33:50

reconnecting with that, because that's really the moment,

Deb Porter: 00:33:53

really, is what? Yes, yes, being in the moment, following that,

Deb Porter: 00:33:56

allowing that, yeah, that's all really, really rich and good. I

Deb Porter: 00:33:59

don't think it's any a curiosity, necessarily about any

Deb Porter: 00:34:01

one thing. It's just about allowing it all to be there.

Janice Porter: 00:34:06

Well, in my experience of you, you are very

Janice Porter: 00:34:09

good listener, and you pay attention to the details, and

Janice Porter: 00:34:14

you're also a very good connector, and that's very

Janice Porter: 00:34:18

that's a very special skill, and much appreciated, because I've

Janice Porter: 00:34:22

met some interesting people through you. So that's really,

Janice Porter: 00:34:24

really special. One last piece of advice from my audience, or

Janice Porter: 00:34:31

something that you want to share

Deb Porter: 00:34:34

if you want to be remembered, listen,

Janice Porter: 00:34:39

okay, love it. Thank you. Deb,

Deb Porter: 00:34:41

this is so thank you really good. Janice, thank

Janice Porter: 00:34:44

you, and I always say at the end of my podcast to

Janice Porter: 00:34:46

my audience, first of all, thank you, and second of all, stay

Janice Porter: 00:34:49

connected and be remembered. Yes, thank.