Why Letting Go Isn’t Giving Up with Jill Sherer Murray | RR279

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Jill, hello, hello and welcome. I am so

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excited for my guest today, Jill sharer Murray, and she is

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someone that I I met on a zoom call, but I just was drawn to to

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talk to her, and so reached out on LinkedIn, and as I always do,

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and it has gone from there, and I feel like she's my new best

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friend. I'm so excited to have her on the show. Welcome. Jill,

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well,

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Jill Sherer Murray: and the feeling is mutual. So thrilled

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to be here. So so happy that you did reach out on LinkedIn.

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Always very tuned to those and judicious. You know about the

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ones that we we pick up on, but I'm, I'm thrilled to be here

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with you today.

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Thank you. So a little bit about about you for

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my audience, I'm just going to say a little bit, because what

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drew me in even more was when I went to your LinkedIn profile, I

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started to find out that you are a multi award winning author, a

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journalist, a writer, communications expert, and a

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TEDx speaker. Now, I'd never wanted to be a TEDx speaker, but

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I helped organize a TEDx conference once, and I know how

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much goes into it, and even more, what goes into being a

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TEDx speaker. So I went and found your TEDx speech called

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Let Go for it, which is now the name of your business as well, I

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know, and it's a lifestyle brand aimed at improving people's

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situation through the simple mantra of letting go. And your

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TEDx speech the unstoppable power of letting go. I know it

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was a few years ago now that you did it millions of views, and it

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talks about your journey of letting go. And I wanted to be,

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I know I'm talking too much, but I just, I wanted to say, no, no,

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no, is that so much came out in just listening to your speech,

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because when it's personal, it's a personal story. Two, you have

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such a great sense of humor, and then I find out that you did

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some comedic training. So all of that came together to do a very

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entertaining, empathetic, or empathic speech. So talk to me

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about your journey to do that first, because I'm curious what

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made you want to do that? Oh, the speech, yeah.

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Jill Sherer Murray: So back at that time, I was, I was just, I

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was so fascinated by Ted. I I just remember I would sit on I

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would sit on the sofa. I would sit out back, or when I had any

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free time, and I would just watch one video after the next.

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Like I would start, I would click on one, I would scroll and

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I thought, Oh, this is so fascinating. And then without

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doing anything else, they would just start rolling into each

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other. And I would think to myself, what an amazing time to

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be able to have access to all of these brilliant human beings

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talking about such fascinating things. And just like, I mean,

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if you think about it, you know, up until then, really, nobody

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was doing anything like that. And it was just very like, I was

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just, I was fascinated. I remember watching one talk some

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guy was doing, like he he filmed like one second of every day of

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his life for like 10 years, and then he did a talk about how

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meaningful one second was. And I thought, my God, that is so

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creative and inventive and powerful. So I loved Ted, and I

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thought, well, I want to give a TED talk. I want to do this.

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And, you know, I'm a writer. I've always been a writer. I

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I've always been speaking in some fashion, whether it's on a

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stage or in business or in a client meeting or whatever. And

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I just, I kind of put that on my list, like I want to give a TED

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talk. And then somebody that I loved died, and it affected me

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really deeply. I didn't expect it. I didn't know what to do

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with it, and I thought, you know, we spend so much time

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spinning around on such tiny little things that don't mean

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anything, and this is how our lives just pass us by. We don't

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have time. We need to let go of those little things so that we

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can really enjoy being here and be in the present and all those

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things. And I sort of built a platform around it. And I wound

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up, it's funny, I worked with a I worked with a coach to help me

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kind of figure out what what the talk was going to be about. And

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I remember we had gone through the process and the talk was

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done, and she sent me an email and she said, Well, there's a

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talk happening in Wilmington, but the application is tomorrow.

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Have to have it in by tomorrow. So Friday. And I remember my

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husband and I were going up to New York City for the night to

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be with friends, and I thought, tomorrow, and an application for

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a TEDx event is not like name, address, phone number. It's, you

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know, name, address, phone number, and why are you. You

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different than everybody else in the free world. And how about a

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little video? And why don't you get up and show me your two step

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like it's a whole thing, right? We're saying to my husband,

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there's no way I could do this. There's no way by tomorrow, we

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have to leave it go up in the city. And I remember he looked

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at me. He's like, What happened to what did you do with my wife?

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Where is she? We got in the car. We drove up to New York. I spun

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myself out. I slept the whole way. We went out with our

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friends, came back to the hotel room. By midnight, one o'clock,

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he went to bed, and I got to work. And by the time I got up

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in the morning and I had filmed a video, my little Microsoft Pro

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on the Bible in the hotel room, looking up my nostril, bent it

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off, I said, That's it. We're done. Get up. It's 730 I'm done.

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We're going to go eat and we're going to go shop. That's how

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it's going to roll now, because I deserve it.

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Yeah,

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Jill Sherer Murray: and and then they picked me, okay, invited me

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to an event, and I was so thrilled. It was a TEDx

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Wilmington, Delaware. It was a it was a beautiful event. 25

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women on a big theater stage, the main, one of the main

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theaters in in Wilmington, several 100 people in the

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audience. I had a terrific organizer. He kept us all very

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on track lots of things. You know, when, if you have a good

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organizer, when you give a TEDx, I mean, you you have to be on

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track. So like, one week they're asking for an outline. The next

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week they'll they want to see a first draft. The next week. They

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want to see a video of you performing like they want to

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make sure that you're not going to get on that stage and melt

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down or do anything that is going to be, you know, not just

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harmful to them as a as an experience, but like it's to

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you. You know, you've worked very hard to get up there on

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that stage and present this idea. And it was just such a

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tremendous experience. I'm so grateful for it, actually every

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day. I mean, not only was it incredible, and is it still

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amazing to me that almost 6 million people and counting have

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watched my talk.

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So let me just interject here a little bit in

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that this, I think one of the reasons is that this is a topic

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that so many women can relate to. It's about that toxic

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relationship that you hang on to forever because you love the

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person, but you deserve way better than the way you're being

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treated. Is basically, I think, what what you were talking

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about, right? And then to coefficient that you know you

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need to get out of this thing. And

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Jill Sherer Murray: you know, what's interesting is that my

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talk was really not supposed to be about that necessarily. It

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was really about supposed to be more of a holistic talk about

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letting go, okay, but I started with a story, and I chose a

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story that, to your point is so was so incredibly resonant for

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every single human being on this planet, yeah, which was like

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such a happy accident on my part, in some ways, that it's

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trying to think of a very impactful story of a time in my

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life when I let go of something that was so hard to let go of.

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And,

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yeah, but you told it really well, as well

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with such great humor. And, you know, the, you know, the fact

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that you, you know, he was a great, I forget some of the

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terms, but he was a great boyfriend, maybe, or, you know,

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like you're, you're coming right, great as well in in

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thing. But yeah, you everyone's got one of those daggers that

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they think they deserve more. They finally, well, no, they

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don't all come to that realization, unfortunately. But

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you know, when you do, it's such a letting go. It's such a relief

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that you can see the forest for the trees now you couldn't

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before, and it's really

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Jill Sherer Murray: like that was a story about a long term

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love. You know somebody that I'd been with for 12 years, which is

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a very long time to date someone if you're interested in being

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married, if you're not, it's totally fine. No one right way

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to be but, we don't just linger where we don't just linger too

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long in relationships. I mean, we linger too long in jobs. We

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linger too long in friendships. We linger too long, you know, in

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personal habits that aren't serving us like I think, I think

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that was such a big, such a big experience that I heard from

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people from all over the world, especially young women. I heard

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from a lot of very which, which surprised me a little bit, in

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the sense that, you know, I am not in my 20s, right? And, but

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hasn't, yeah, but I, I was really happy to hear from these

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young women in the sense that I felt that I had something to

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offer them that could potentially change their lives

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in a meaningful way

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sooner than it happened for you. So they That's

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right, that's right,

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Jill Sherer Murray: yeah, like in time for things, in time to

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if they wanted to have families, if. They want just to not, not

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make so many hard mistakes that were painful and have to learn

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the hard way that, you know, as we get older. I mean, certainly

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we can do a lot of things, but it's a fact of, you know,

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reality that as we get older, something stopped being

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available to us, and so to be able to kind of get to young

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women early in that stage, where they can potentially make better

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choices for themselves, or see some of the blind spots that

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maybe they had to reverse some of the things that you know,

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that they learned about themselves that gave them some

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limiting beliefs that were never going to serve them to really

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even stop and say, Wait a minute. Maybe that's not right.

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Maybe I need to think about this in a different way. And that

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felt, that felt really wonderful to me. And it was interesting,

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because I also heard from some men, which I loved so much,

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because the the person in in the in the relationship, his name

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was Hector, who I stayed with, who made all the promises, and

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was a wonderful person. Did not do that in any kind of malicious

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way, but some of them came to me and said, Oh, my God, I'm

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Hector. Ah,

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oh, wow. And was it a fear of commitment, or was

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it just that they didn't know? Okay,

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Jill Sherer Murray: they didn't know, and they didn't realize.

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They didn't realize the impact their actions had on another

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person's life, on their partner's life. And I just, you

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know, a lot of men did not like what I had to say, the ones who

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because I was trying to empower people, not just women, people

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to recognize their own self worth and to make decisions

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based on that. But when I would get those notes and from people

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saying, oh my gosh, I'm Hector, what do I do now? I I just

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wanted to put my arms around them, yeah, say, well, first of

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all, I mean, be so incredible, right? Like, like, what it what

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a revelation for you to and to be willing to acknowledge it is

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so big. And you know, that's the beginning of change. So, so I

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love that. I love that.

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So, at the time that you did this, you were

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working in corporate, yes, you

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Jill Sherer Murray: at the time I've done anything jealous.

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Okay, so you've been in that, that corporate

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water wheel, whatever, it's all right, no, and you did this for

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yourself, and you for this experience for yourself. Did was

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it a catalyst to you start to start to think of doing

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something other than corporate, or were you also, had you been

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an author yet, like I know you've then you then wrote this

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book called Big, wild love, the unstoppable power of letting go,

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which I think came after the TED Talk. Correct, correct.

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Jill Sherer Murray: Yep, yep.

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Okay, so

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Jill Sherer Murray: it's, it's so interesting because when I

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was in my corporate job and worked with somebody who had an

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interesting relationship with and at one point, you know, we

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were kind of talking about who and what we wanted to be. And I

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remember saying to her, Well, you know, I, I was running a

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communications practice for a large company, and I remember

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saying, well, someday I'd like to give a TED talk and write a

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book. And I remember her saying to me, Well, you're very far

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from that, aren't you. And I remember thinking, first I

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thought, well, that's not very nice. And now I want to thank

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her,

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because she challenged you because right,

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Jill Sherer Murray: because she was right, you know, she was

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right. And so after I gave that talk and it started to get some

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traction, I thought, okay, you know, this is, this is a

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catalyst for me, really thinking about, sort of what comes next

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for me. Maybe there is another chapter that is here and and

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then an agent approached me about a book, which was very

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natural for me. I've been a writer my whole life, so I have,

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you know, I have had books with agents before that couldn't

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sell. I have a couple books in a drawer. Probably have a couple

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books under some old shoes somewhere. So I was thrilled.

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Um, so, yeah, so I did think, Okay, I'm going to take this big

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leap and see where it leads me, which I did. I did leave my job,

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okay? And then my book was supposed to come out, and I was

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supposed to have a book tour may 2020, and that's when the world

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shut down, right? Okay, yeah, yeah.

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So what happened for you then,

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Jill Sherer Murray: Oh, let's see. After I well, I had a

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canceled book tour, many canceled opportunities, no job,

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a beautiful new book. And so after I ate lots of cookies and

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pride in the bathroom, decided that it was time to get some new

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solutions. And so I started my own business, and I. Consulting

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and doing freelancing and doing a lot of, you know, online

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virtual stuff, which I do not love. I was starting to, yeah, I

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wanted to become a speaker, and all of the speaking

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opportunities were really all online at that point. And then I

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thought, okay, we're just gonna pivot here. And I think, like

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everybody else in the world, Janice, I was like, just do your

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best, you know, do the best you can to adjust to the world's

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changing. And here's where we are. And, you know, find the

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opportunities where you can find them make a living, you know, so

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you

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do that. And you said something to me earlier as

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well about, and this might have been before we went on, on, on

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live conversation here, but we were talking about some of the

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things you're thinking are open to in the future, maybe going

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back into a job, job, maybe, you know, doing it in a different

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way, whatever. But you said something to me that really hit

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home for me, and that was that you were talking to someone you

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knew who thought there might be a job for you where she works.

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And for me, that is always the way it is. It's about

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relationships. And how do you work those relationships? And I

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don't mean that in a negative way, but how do you leverage

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those relationships to help you move forward? Because it's

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always been for me, not what you know, but who you know, and you

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know that's a new job by just sending out resumes is never and

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I know telling my daughter that for a long time because she

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doesn't like to talk to people. That's the way she ends up

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getting a job in the first place, right? Is somebody else?

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Well, you

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Jill Sherer Murray: know, and you know it's that's the thing.

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And I You're right, Janice, because I will tell you any I

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don't even want to call it a job, any opportunity that has

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come my way has come my way through other people when I have

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not been looking for it. So for example, when I was working for

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a large corporation building this communications practice,

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prior to having that job, I had just moved into a new

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neighborhood. I was newly married, I didn't know anybody I

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was freelancing. I was getting antsy. I was interested in a

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job. I had no idea what I was going to do, and so I did what

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anybody in their right mind would do in this situation, is I

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went and I got a manicure, and I'm sitting at the manicure,

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getting a pedicure, and there's a girl sitting next to me, a

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woman sitting next to me, and she looks very familiar to me.

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And as you can tell, I'm super shy, so I started to have a

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conversation with her. And the long and short of it is, hey, we

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need a writer. Hey, I'm looking for a gig. Hey, let me bring you

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in. Hey, Bing, bam, boom, higher trader, newsletter letter. Wound

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up becoming director of marketing and communications,

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communications Practice Leader, building a practice inside of

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communications firm through someone I did not even know, but

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because we had such a and who was still a very dear friend to

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this day. And it's like look back at so many of the

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opportunities. I remember moving to Chicago after I got my

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graduate degree because I always wanted to live in Chicago. I got

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my graduate degree in Boston, and I remember I didn't know

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anyone in Chicago. I moved there without a friend or a job, and I

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remember going to a pier one import store because I was so

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I'd been there for a couple weeks. I couldn't find a job. I

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was so sad. I didn't know where I lived. My friends were far

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away. I didn't know what I was doing, and I met this girl. We

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really had absolutely nothing in common except that she had just

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moved there, and so we were both kind of desperate for a pal. We

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started to hang out. And the long and short of it is her, her

Janice Porter: 00:18:52

brother was an editor at Crane's Chicago Business. Bing, bam,

Janice Porter: 00:18:57

boom. There I go, as I'm sitting in the tub crying because I

Janice Porter: 00:19:02

don't know what's to become of me. I hear him on my answering

Janice Porter: 00:19:04

machine saying, Would you like a job? So you just don't know.

Janice Porter: 00:19:09

It's like anything could happen at any time. If you are open, if

Janice Porter: 00:19:15

you're open, even like through LinkedIn, but even in real life,

Janice Porter: 00:19:18

if you're out in the world and you're friendly and you're

Janice Porter: 00:19:21

talking to people, I mean, sharing stories with them,

Janice Porter: 00:19:24

helping them to understand who you are, listening to them,

Janice Porter: 00:19:28

being the giver too. You know, it's, it's really, it's really

Janice Porter: 00:19:33

this, I love what you do, because I really believe that

Janice Porter: 00:19:37

that is the key to everything, not just a job. It's the key,

Janice Porter: 00:19:41

really, to to joy, to friendship, to to information,

Janice Porter: 00:19:46

to getting access to answers. You know, meeting people and

Janice Porter: 00:19:50

talking to them about things that you might be struggling

Janice Porter: 00:19:52

with or questioning, right? Oh, they know somebody, or they have

Janice Porter: 00:19:55

their own experience. And so it's making those connections, I

Janice Porter: 00:19:59

think. And

Janice Porter: 00:20:00

making real and making them, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:20:02

appreciated, and that kind of thing I know, I have a question

Janice Porter: 00:20:07

around from your TED Talk, talking about letting go and

Janice Porter: 00:20:14

that major life experience for you that you were talking about

Janice Porter: 00:20:18

in there, because it was a great story that we could all relate

Janice Porter: 00:20:21

to. Has it made it easier for you going forward, to let go of

Janice Porter: 00:20:28

different things once that big thing happened? Did it change

Janice Porter: 00:20:32

you in any other way? In other words,

Janice Porter: 00:20:37

Jill Sherer Murray: that's a really good question. I think

Janice Porter: 00:20:40

letting go? This came to me, yeah, no, it's a really good

Janice Porter: 00:20:44

question, because, you know, you would think that it would make

Janice Porter: 00:20:47

letting go whenever we have to much easier. And I did create a

Janice Porter: 00:20:55

process for letting go that I outlined in my book. And excuse

Janice Porter: 00:21:00

me, I wouldn't necessarily say that it made it easier, because

Janice Porter: 00:21:05

it's hard to let go. Yes, it's very hard to let go. It's hard,

Janice Porter: 00:21:10

you know, letting go of something, even if it's the best

Janice Porter: 00:21:12

thing in the world for us, involves loss, and loss involves

Janice Porter: 00:21:17

grief, yes, and so anytime we let go of something, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:21:24

whether it's a job, whether it's a friendship, and we know that

Janice Porter: 00:21:26

it's the right thing, it's still really hard. I think what

Janice Porter: 00:21:32

happened to me after that talk was it forced me to go even

Janice Porter: 00:21:36

deeper inside of what it really means to let go and to remind

Janice Porter: 00:21:43

myself that it is a tool I have available to me anytime that I

Janice Porter: 00:21:48

need to use it, and that if I do use it, when I use it, it will

Janice Porter: 00:21:53

be hard, but I will survive it, and I will come through it to a

Janice Porter: 00:21:59

better Place, and I know how to do it now, but I don't know that

Janice Porter: 00:22:03

it ever really gets easier. It depends on what you're letting

Janice Porter: 00:22:06

go of and and I love that question, because really, I

Janice Porter: 00:22:10

think it leads to the bigger subject of the title of the

Janice Porter: 00:22:14

book, which is big, wild love, which is the one thing we need

Janice Porter: 00:22:17

to have in order to be able to let go successfully. It's the

Janice Porter: 00:22:21

one thing that I was the common denominator from every single

Janice Porter: 00:22:25

person I talked to after that talk who reached out to me,

Janice Porter: 00:22:27

saying, I need to let go. I need to let go. How do I do this? And

Janice Porter: 00:22:32

the common denominator between all of them, all of them, was

Janice Porter: 00:22:35

that they did not understand that they deserved better, and

Janice Porter: 00:22:41

so they didn't have the ground under their feet to say, You

Janice Porter: 00:22:45

know what, if I let go of this person, if I let go of this job

Janice Porter: 00:22:50

or whatever I'm letting go of, I will be okay, because I have me

Janice Porter: 00:22:55

right, and I, you know, I always say, Janice. You might have

Janice Porter: 00:22:58

heard me say this if you listen to any other interviews, but I

Janice Porter: 00:23:00

say it over and over again, because it's really, I think

Janice Porter: 00:23:02

it's clear, you know, if we have big, wild love, which is the

Janice Porter: 00:23:07

courage and the confidence and the belief in ourselves, that we

Janice Porter: 00:23:09

can, that we can do what we need to do, and take care of

Janice Porter: 00:23:12

ourselves and be great, and that will allow us to take the risk

Janice Porter: 00:23:16

that's involved in letting go, because there's risk again,

Janice Porter: 00:23:18

because we're losing something if We go to the end of the edge

Janice Porter: 00:23:22

of the cliff and we don't see a net, we're not going to ever

Janice Porter: 00:23:26

jump. But if we see a net, we'll jump. And in in this case, big

Janice Porter: 00:23:31

wild love is we are the net. Yes, yes. So if I if I know

Janice Porter: 00:23:37

that, I am going to be okay. If I know that, if I jump and I

Janice Porter: 00:23:40

will be my own net. I will jump every time, because even if it's

Janice Porter: 00:23:45

hard, I know I'm going to land, I'm going to bounce, I'm going

Janice Porter: 00:23:47

to flop up and down, and I'm going to get on my feet. I'm

Janice Porter: 00:23:49

going to be somewhere completely different. I'm just going to

Janice Porter: 00:23:52

keep walking in that space. You're going

Janice Porter: 00:23:54

to bet on yourself. And that's the whole

Janice Porter: 00:23:56

thing about my podcast, is relationships rule, and your

Janice Porter: 00:24:01

relationship with yourself has to be strong in the first place

Janice Porter: 00:24:04

before you can have any other relationships, because

Janice Porter: 00:24:07

Jill Sherer Murray: that's and that's that's right, and we're

Janice Porter: 00:24:09

never done with that, because we're anytime we're in in a new

Janice Porter: 00:24:13

experience, or something new happens to us, or we change, or

Janice Porter: 00:24:16

we evolve, or we have loss, or whatever, we have new limiting

Janice Porter: 00:24:20

beliefs and new experiences that we have to kind of rise above

Janice Porter: 00:24:23

and reckon with in order to keep that ground under our feet so

Janice Porter: 00:24:26

that we can keep letting go, right, right? I struggle let go

Janice Porter: 00:24:30

of something, and you and I have talked over the past several

Janice Porter: 00:24:33

months about this. You know, when I'm struggling to let go of

Janice Porter: 00:24:35

something, the first thing I do is I say, What is my limiting

Janice Porter: 00:24:40

belief. What do I believe about myself right now that is getting

Janice Porter: 00:24:44

in the way of me, that is forcing me to hold on to this,

Janice Porter: 00:24:48

you know, how am I going to stand in this discomfort? Will I

Janice Porter: 00:24:52

be okay with it? And I give myself a whole lot of grace,

Janice Porter: 00:24:56

because it's about having all of. The feelings when you're

Janice Porter: 00:25:00

getting ready to let go of something. It's feeling the

Janice Porter: 00:25:03

sadness, it's feeling the freedom. It's feeling the the

Janice Porter: 00:25:06

Will I get through this. It's the anger, it's all the emotions

Janice Porter: 00:25:10

that eventually get you to the other side, and you have to be

Janice Porter: 00:25:14

like I said to you earlier. You have to be comfortable like a

Janice Porter: 00:25:17

flop and fish out of water,

Janice Porter: 00:25:18

right, right? You just reminded me of personal

Janice Porter: 00:25:22

development course I took many, many, many years ago. And I

Janice Porter: 00:25:27

think I was coming out of a bad marriage, my starter marriage, I

Janice Porter: 00:25:31

call it, and and I was getting on my feet again, and I walked

Janice Porter: 00:25:37

into the room the first day of the three day event. And

Janice Porter: 00:25:41

actually think somebody gave me a ticket to go to this because

Janice Porter: 00:25:44

they said I needed something to, you know, get me moving forward.

Janice Porter: 00:25:48

And up at the beginning, at the front of the room, there was a

Janice Porter: 00:25:51

big banner, and it says, What am I pretending not to know? Wow,

Janice Porter: 00:25:57

yeah, yeah, it was up there the whole time. What am I pretending

Janice Porter: 00:26:01

not to know? And yes, of course, made you want to have to look

Janice Porter: 00:26:04

inside to answer that question, and sort of yes evolved as the

Janice Porter: 00:26:08

weekend went on, but that's what you made me think of when you,

Janice Porter: 00:26:11

you know, said, Well, that's

Janice Porter: 00:26:13

Jill Sherer Murray: it. That's so powerful. I love that. What

Janice Porter: 00:26:15

am I pretending not to know? Because, you know, we can't run

Janice Porter: 00:26:19

from that for very long.

Janice Porter: 00:26:20

No, I know, because it'll catch up with us,

Janice Porter: 00:26:22

right? Yeah.

Janice Porter: 00:26:23

Jill Sherer Murray: I refer to that as the beach ball. It's the

Janice Porter: 00:26:27

beach ball we try and hold in our gut, but eventually the

Janice Porter: 00:26:30

beach ball starts to rise up through our windpipe, and we

Janice Porter: 00:26:34

can't hold it down anymore, right? You know, it's, it's,

Janice Porter: 00:26:37

what do we believe? What do we not want to look at about that

Janice Porter: 00:26:42

we have to, that we have to yes, that we have to in order to be

Janice Porter: 00:26:46

able to get comfortable with that discomfort that comes from

Janice Porter: 00:26:52

letting go. Right?

Janice Porter: 00:26:53

So over the years, have you, then, for lack

Janice Porter: 00:26:58

of a better word, I'm going to say Coach. Have you coached

Janice Porter: 00:27:01

people to let go of things? Have you Has that been part of your

Janice Porter: 00:27:06

own business as well, helping people let go?

Janice Porter: 00:27:11

Jill Sherer Murray: Yes, actually, I have done that work

Janice Porter: 00:27:14

and and I and I love doing it when the people who are coming

Janice Porter: 00:27:19

to me really want to get it when they don't just want to vent,

Janice Porter: 00:27:25

and I understand all the venting i so get that when it's really,

Janice Porter: 00:27:32

truly about, how do I do this and change and how do I how do I

Janice Porter: 00:27:39

build this muscle? You know, what do I need to do? What is

Janice Porter: 00:27:42

the process for doing this? And that process can take as long as

Janice Porter: 00:27:48

it needs to take. It's not like we you know, it's not like when

Janice Porter: 00:27:51

I let go of my 12 year, 12 year relationship that I talk about

Janice Porter: 00:27:54

in the talk and my book. I didn't wake up one day and say,

Janice Porter: 00:27:58

Gosh, I need to let go of this relationship, and then the next

Janice Porter: 00:28:00

day was like, bye, see you. Bye. Gonna blow up my life. Like it

Janice Porter: 00:28:03

doesn't work that way. And so I have helped people to understand

Janice Porter: 00:28:08

there are steps along the way that we go through, and I

Janice Porter: 00:28:15

actually continue. I have all the steps in my book. And

Janice Porter: 00:28:17

honestly, Janice, like I put myself through all of those

Janice Porter: 00:28:21

paces, when I am struggling and when I am uncertain about where

Janice Porter: 00:28:26

to go next or what to do next, or when I know that I have got

Janice Porter: 00:28:31

to let go of something, whether it's fear, whether it's imposter

Janice Porter: 00:28:36

syndrome, whether it's inaction, whether it's An issue inside of

Janice Porter: 00:28:40

a relationship, or an entire relationship, or a job, or a

Janice Porter: 00:28:44

person at my job, or a belief about someone or something at my

Janice Porter: 00:28:48

job, or how I engage with it. There's so many, in fact, in my

Janice Porter: 00:28:52

book, and I'm not trying to shove this book at anybody, but

Janice Porter: 00:28:55

there, there are, like, I put a list of 100 what I call let

Janice Porter: 00:28:59

gobles, things that are we can potentially let go of that you

Janice Porter: 00:29:02

wouldn't imagine are standing between us and the thing that we

Janice Porter: 00:29:05

want that really could, like, derail us. I mean, it could be

Janice Porter: 00:29:10

something as you know, I remember one time my husband and

Janice Porter: 00:29:13

I walk every day in the mornings, and I remember I had a

Janice Porter: 00:29:16

friend who was in a bad relationship, and she just would

Janice Porter: 00:29:19

not quit with this bad relationship, and every and I

Janice Porter: 00:29:22

was getting ready to make some big moves in my life, and every

Janice Porter: 00:29:25

morning, I would complain to my husband about this person. And

Janice Porter: 00:29:28

finally, one day, he said to me, Look, you need to get in your

Janice Porter: 00:29:32

process here. Because, why? Why are you spinning on this other

Janice Porter: 00:29:37

person so heavily? And it was because as long as I was

Janice Porter: 00:29:42

spinning on her, I didn't have to look at my own big moves that

Janice Porter: 00:29:47

were scary to me. It was a lot of deflection. And so I did, and

Janice Porter: 00:29:53

as soon as I got in my into my process, I stopped talking about

Janice Porter: 00:29:57

her, and I could put all that energy back. On me and what I

Janice Porter: 00:30:01

was doing. So it can be so nuanced to things that get in

Janice Porter: 00:30:06

our way.

Janice Porter: 00:30:07

So I am curious to know what was very different

Janice Porter: 00:30:12

about your husband than your 12 year relationship person,

Janice Porter: 00:30:16

Hector.

Janice Porter: 00:30:19

Jill Sherer Murray: Well, Hector was a no guy, and my husband,

Janice Porter: 00:30:23

Dan is a yes guy,

Janice Porter: 00:30:25

okay,

Janice Porter: 00:30:25

Jill Sherer Murray: and, you know, it's, it's funny, because

Janice Porter: 00:30:28

when I met my husband, I I remember we met, and we knew

Janice Porter: 00:30:35

fairly quickly. I mean, we met, you know, we're both in our 40s,

Janice Porter: 00:30:39

and I knew that I was not going to date someone for 12 years

Janice Porter: 00:30:43

again, and he sent me an email. It was such a lovely email. It

Janice Porter: 00:30:49

was a picture of a beach and a sunset, and it's something

Janice Porter: 00:30:52

corny, like, this is how I feel when I this is how I this is how

Janice Porter: 00:30:58

I feel when I think of you. So I went online and I found a

Janice Porter: 00:31:03

picture of the largest diamond ring I could find, and I pasted

Janice Porter: 00:31:10

it into an email. I said, Boy, I'm either going to hear from

Janice Porter: 00:31:14

this guy or I'm not. And I said, this is how I feel when I think

Janice Porter: 00:31:17

about you.

Janice Porter: 00:31:20

That's unbelievable. What a good

Janice Porter: 00:31:22

sport he was about that. But, um, he, you know, I think he

Janice Porter: 00:31:27

just we wanted the same things. We're both very my husband is a

Janice Porter: 00:31:31

musician and a writer and a poet and a creative and we kind of

Janice Porter: 00:31:37

wanted the same things from life. We had a lot of things in

Janice Porter: 00:31:40

common. We laugh together. He's such a wonderfully good person.

Janice Porter: 00:31:47

And so was Hector. That was always very important to me, you

Janice Porter: 00:31:50

know, to be with someone who had a really good heart, and he had

Janice Porter: 00:31:54

a very interesting life story. And it just felt really right

Janice Porter: 00:31:58

and it and, you know, honestly, like, timing is everything too.

Janice Porter: 00:32:03

Timing is everything. And, you know, I was at a point too,

Janice Porter: 00:32:06

where I was okay if it never happened, I was okay if I never

Janice Porter: 00:32:10

got married. You know, marriage is not the only way to be happy.

Janice Porter: 00:32:14

It was just something that I happen to want. Nobody has to

Janice Porter: 00:32:17

want it. But I think, you know, that's all part of it is really,

Janice Porter: 00:32:23

I think it's the hardest part of letting go. The hardest part of

Janice Porter: 00:32:28

letting go is deciding what we want. Yeah, yeah, because that's

Janice Porter: 00:32:35

really hard. And I, in doing the research for the book, I found

Janice Porter: 00:32:39

only one statistic about that, that said that one in 100 people

Janice Porter: 00:32:43

knows what they want. So if we don't know what we want, how

Janice Porter: 00:32:48

will we get it exactly? And so I think that is such a huge that

Janice Porter: 00:32:55

is such a huge impediment to being able to let go. Because if

Janice Porter: 00:32:59

you're in a job, let's say I'll use job, for example, and you

Janice Porter: 00:33:02

hate your job, but you don't know where you're going next.

Janice Porter: 00:33:04

Are you going to rush out of the job? I

Janice Porter: 00:33:07

was in that situation, but I I got

Janice Porter: 00:33:09

physically ill about it, and I had to leave. Yeah, but it took

Janice Porter: 00:33:15

getting but

Janice Porter: 00:33:16

Jill Sherer Murray: you had to get to that point. Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:33:18

exactly. Yeah, right. So if we could know these things at the

Janice Porter: 00:33:23

outset, if we are in a situation, whether it's wherever

Janice Porter: 00:33:27

it is in whatever aspect of our lives, if we could know when we

Janice Porter: 00:33:31

first get those, those those Inklings, the that we start to

Janice Porter: 00:33:35

see this is no longer right for me. It's and it's, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:33:40

listen, it's not about saying, like I would never say anything

Janice Porter: 00:33:43

bad about Hector. He was a wonderful person, and he helped

Janice Porter: 00:33:46

me, and he did a lot for me in my life, and I cherish the times

Janice Porter: 00:33:50

that we had together, because it taught me a lot that I needed to

Janice Porter: 00:33:53

learn. But so I never want to let go of something with bad

Janice Porter: 00:33:58

feelings or intent, even if it's coming from the other side, it

Janice Porter: 00:34:02

doesn't have to come from me. It's better if it doesn't right

Janice Porter: 00:34:05

that I can move forward. But I don't want to have to get to

Janice Porter: 00:34:09

that point where I'm sick or where it's so horrible that I

Janice Porter: 00:34:14

haven't, you know, kind of decided I'm going to get out.

Janice Porter: 00:34:19

I'm going to choose, even if what I want next is not is like

Janice Porter: 00:34:24

my starter house, you know, maybe it's not the big house,

Janice Porter: 00:34:28

maybe it's not the one that I'm ultimately going to want, but

Janice Porter: 00:34:31

it's okay to to, it's okay to choose a stepping stone as the

Janice Porter: 00:34:36

thing that you quote want, because it's hard to figure out

Janice Porter: 00:34:40

what you want, but if you're in a situation, you're holding on

Janice Porter: 00:34:44

to something that is bad for you, it's better to find figure

Janice Porter: 00:34:48

out what you want as a stopgap in the short term while you

Janice Porter: 00:34:52

figure out the next step, than to stay stuck in that thinking,

Janice Porter: 00:34:57

I don't know what that next thing is, so I'm just going to

Janice Porter: 00:34:59

stay here. And be miserable, and let the days of my life just

Janice Porter: 00:35:03

twirl by me until maybe every day I wake up and I am sick as a

Janice Porter: 00:35:08

dog and I hate everything. And you know, that's not good

Janice Porter: 00:35:13

either. Everybody has been there. I've been there. You

Janice Porter: 00:35:17

know, I know everybody who's been there, and we reason with

Janice Porter: 00:35:21

ourselves, why we must stay in these situations. But you know

Janice Porter: 00:35:24

what? There's a better way.

Janice Porter: 00:35:28

Okay, let's just reverse that for a second,

Janice Porter: 00:35:30

because one of the things that I notice today in with society in

Janice Porter: 00:35:37

general, that as I take it by gargantuan

Janice Porter: 00:35:39

Jill Sherer Murray: bottle, they won't

Janice Porter: 00:35:41

see that, but it's like this huge, the hugest

Janice Porter: 00:35:44

water bottle I've ever seen. Anyway I see today. So many

Janice Porter: 00:35:49

young couples have kids, and then they split up, they give

Janice Porter: 00:35:53

up, they give up too soon, on something. How? What's your take

Janice Porter: 00:35:57

on that?

Janice Porter: 00:36:00

Jill Sherer Murray: I mean, you know?

Janice Porter: 00:36:02

I mean, every situation is different. I'm not

Janice Porter: 00:36:04

trying to, you know, yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:36:05

Jill Sherer Murray: I mean, I don't, I wouldn't pretend to

Janice Porter: 00:36:08

know what's happening in anybody else's relationship. I think we

Janice Porter: 00:36:13

have access to a lot of choices now it's very confusing and

Janice Porter: 00:36:17

complicated sometimes, because I think sometimes we think

Janice Porter: 00:36:21

something is better than what we've got

Janice Porter: 00:36:24

and the graph.

Janice Porter: 00:36:27

Jill Sherer Murray: And I think, and I love that you brought up

Janice Porter: 00:36:30

the idea, actually, of giving up, because that's not what

Janice Porter: 00:36:32

letting go is, you know, letting go is not about giving up. It's

Janice Porter: 00:36:39

not about, you know, making peace with the situation, it's

Janice Porter: 00:36:43

not about taking a consolation prize. I mean, letting go is

Janice Porter: 00:36:47

about true detachment, truly detaching from a situation, an

Janice Porter: 00:36:55

experience, a job, a person, a relationship, an issue inside of

Janice Porter: 00:37:00

a relationship. So I mean, if people are are married and they

Janice Porter: 00:37:06

decide to divorce for whatever reason, I would hope that both

Janice Porter: 00:37:14

parties, you know, would have looked at the situation and the

Janice Porter: 00:37:18

stakes and how they're feeling and with love and respect for

Janice Porter: 00:37:22

one another, come to those decisions together from a

Janice Porter: 00:37:26

healthy place. Now, you and I both know that's very

Janice Porter: 00:37:31

idealistic, yeah, and you know, because I think a lot of people

Janice Porter: 00:37:35

are just hanging on to some old wounds and limiting beliefs and

Janice Porter: 00:37:41

things that they believe to be true about themselves and

Janice Porter: 00:37:43

themselves inside the world, and what they believe is possible

Janice Porter: 00:37:47

for them and what they deserve, so based on all that criteria,

Janice Porter: 00:37:52

if they're in a situation where they're unhappy and they think

Janice Porter: 00:37:56

just leaving it and going to the next thing without doing That

Janice Porter: 00:37:59

self examination to understand really, what is the underlying

Janice Porter: 00:38:03

issue here? Is it really me? Is it my relationship? Is it the

Janice Porter: 00:38:06

other person? Is it all of the above? And is there a way that

Janice Porter: 00:38:09

we can honestly and authentically pull out and

Janice Porter: 00:38:13

identify the issues and learn how to deal with them, and then

Janice Porter: 00:38:16

let them go completely, both detach from them, so that we can

Janice Porter: 00:38:19

move forward together. That's great. That doesn't happen all

Janice Porter: 00:38:23

the time. No no, and there's so much choice now. You know

Janice Porter: 00:38:27

everything. Like, when I was young and dating, we didn't have

Janice Porter: 00:38:30

internet, like, we didn't have phones in our pockets, we didn't

Janice Porter: 00:38:33

have all these apps. So like, if we wanted, I remember being in

Janice Porter: 00:38:37

my 20s and going to, like, singles bowling night at the

Janice Porter: 00:38:39

grocery store, because no other way to meet people. Yeah, so it

Janice Porter: 00:38:45

was harder. I think it was harder. So if you were in a

Janice Porter: 00:38:47

situation, it wasn't like you could just get on a phone and

Janice Porter: 00:38:52

say, Oh, look at all these other options out here. I can just

Janice Porter: 00:38:55

leave this. Maybe we had a little bit more tenacity and

Janice Porter: 00:38:59

grit about our situations, but if the situation is wrong, and

Janice Porter: 00:39:03

if you've tried and all those other positive elements are

Janice Porter: 00:39:06

there, but then, by all means, I would say, you know, move

Janice Porter: 00:39:09

forward. Yeah.

Janice Porter: 00:39:11

Well, this has been delightful, and I I could

Janice Porter: 00:39:15

talk to you for hours. I want to ask a couple of quick questions

Janice Porter: 00:39:19

before we end One is there's some interesting trophies behind

Janice Porter: 00:39:26

you on your desk. Oh, yeah, share with me what those are?

Janice Porter: 00:39:30

The Emmys? Are they?

Janice Porter: 00:39:32

Jill Sherer Murray: Oh, oh, I wish that would be so nice.

Janice Porter: 00:39:36

They're just some some awards that I have won for my writing,

Janice Porter: 00:39:41

and some of them are from the team the communications work

Janice Porter: 00:39:45

that I did with the team that I led in my in my business. So,

Janice Porter: 00:39:48

yeah, I absconded with these trophies. Love it for lack of a

Janice Porter: 00:39:52

better place to put

Janice Porter: 00:39:53

them. No, it's good. It's conversation. Okay.

Janice Porter: 00:39:55

And so as a writer, I'm curious what do you. Read? Do you read

Janice Porter: 00:40:01

fiction? Do you read business books? Do you read self health

Janice Porter: 00:40:04

books? What biography? What do you do? And when you read? Do

Janice Porter: 00:40:08

you read the traditional way? Or do you read on a Kindle? Or do

Janice Porter: 00:40:13

you Audible? Audible? What do you do?

Janice Porter: 00:40:16

Jill Sherer Murray: You know, I read books. Okay? I don't read

Janice Porter: 00:40:19

on a Kindle. I don't I love to hold books in my hands. I always

Janice Porter: 00:40:23

have many books going. I really love fiction. I love fiction

Janice Porter: 00:40:28

because to me, it tells the lie that tells the truth. And I find

Janice Porter: 00:40:33

that fiction is so just, there's nothing like being on page like

Janice Porter: 00:40:37

136 of a great novel like the best. Although lately, because I

Janice Porter: 00:40:43

have a novel with my agent now, and I'm getting ready to start

Janice Porter: 00:40:46

on the next one, I'm reading some some writing books. So I'm

Janice Porter: 00:40:52

reading, well, my agent has a wonderful book. It's called the

Janice Porter: 00:40:56

author's checklist, and it's a it's a great book for anybody

Janice Porter: 00:41:01

who wants to write a manuscript. And, you know, get it, get it

Janice Porter: 00:41:05

straight. But I'm actually reading this book called Truth

Janice Porter: 00:41:07

is the arrow. Mercy is the bow, by Steve almond, and it's a

Janice Porter: 00:41:11

manual for writing story. And so as much as I've been a writer my

Janice Porter: 00:41:16

whole life, I still love to read about how to construct great

Janice Porter: 00:41:20

stories. So I do read a lot of those books, but I am a fiction

Janice Porter: 00:41:23

girl. I love fiction, and I will have to say I have a lot of

Janice Porter: 00:41:27

friends who are writers, and lately I feel like I'm reading a

Janice Porter: 00:41:30

lot of their books, like we share our books. So hey, can you

Janice Porter: 00:41:33

read this? Hey, can you give me? So that's really fun. So yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:41:38

well, the

Janice Porter: 00:41:38

more people that I've interviewed and that our

Janice Porter: 00:41:41

writers, the more I've unders, I've come to understand that to

Janice Porter: 00:41:46

be a writer, I mean, a good writer is a lot it. There's a

Janice Porter: 00:41:51

lot of stuff, you know, involved and, oh yeah, hear people talk

Janice Porter: 00:41:56

about it, and the research and, you know, fact checking and and

Janice Porter: 00:42:01

style and everything. I mean, I'm not, I'm a talker. I'm not a

Janice Porter: 00:42:04

writer, but I'm, I'm fascinated by and in intrigued by it. So,

Janice Porter: 00:42:10

yeah, good, good on you. Okay, and last question, Well, where

Janice Porter: 00:42:16

can people find you? And I'll put it in the show notes on your

Janice Porter: 00:42:20

website, I'm assuming Jill, yes. Jill shiramurray.com Yep, and

Janice Porter: 00:42:25

you are let go for it on Facebook and Instagram and Jill

Janice Porter: 00:42:30

Shira Murray on LinkedIn. Um, yes, you'll write a blog or do a

Janice Porter: 00:42:37

podcast yourself. I can't remember. No, I

Janice Porter: 00:42:40

Jill Sherer Murray: don't blog and I don't do a podcast, but I

Janice Porter: 00:42:42

do help businesses. I do a lot of consulting on communications

Janice Porter: 00:42:47

and marketing, and I do a lot of writing, copywriting, that kind

Janice Porter: 00:42:51

of thing. So forgive me, I have terrible allergies this time of

Janice Porter: 00:42:56

year. Yeah, so I'm not currently writing a blog or doing anything

Janice Porter: 00:43:01

like this, because I'm trying to get this one novel finished up

Janice Porter: 00:43:05

so my agent can start getting it out on sub and then starting the

Janice Porter: 00:43:08

next one. So I've kind of been putting all of my energy into

Janice Porter: 00:43:11

that, but that is the, you know, for us authors, I mean, we have

Janice Porter: 00:43:14

to market, and so that's, that's a part of the job. We don't all

Janice Porter: 00:43:18

all love but, but I do love being on a podcast, and I do

Janice Porter: 00:43:22

admire you having a podcast. I admire all podcasters. I would

Janice Porter: 00:43:25

love to do that. I know it's such a time consuming, um

Janice Porter: 00:43:29

effort, but really fun, so I really appreciate that.

Janice Porter: 00:43:32

So can you give us a tiny hint about your new

Janice Porter: 00:43:35

novel? What's it about?

Janice Porter: 00:43:36

Jill Sherer Murray: Oh, well, yes, it's, it's, uh, I have to

Janice Porter: 00:43:39

get better at this. Janice, honestly, right? Why do I want

Janice Porter: 00:43:43

to story of a woman who falls in love in midlife and marries a

Janice Porter: 00:43:50

man his kids and his ex wife?

Janice Porter: 00:43:52

Got it okay? We have one of those in our family.

Janice Porter: 00:43:55

Got it okay? Yes. Well, look forward to that. It might be

Janice Porter: 00:44:00

interesting. So thanks for being here, thanks for sharing, thanks

Janice Porter: 00:44:04

for your openness and your sense of humor and personality. I

Janice Porter: 00:44:09

really enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you to my audience

Janice Porter: 00:44:13

for being here and remember if you like what you hear, let us

Janice Porter: 00:44:16

know and stay connected and be remembered. Thank you. Janice,

Janice Porter: 00:44:23

my pleasure. Bye.