Breaking the Cycle: Letting Go of Money Beliefs That No Longer Serve You with Sloan Wilkins | RR 316

Janice Porter: 00:00:03

Foreign Hello, hello and welcome to the show.

Janice Porter: 00:00:06

Sloan Wilkins, all the way from Brisbane, Australia,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:11

it's very good to be here. Good Well, it's good

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:13

morning. My time. Jennifer, early evening for you. Late

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:17

afternoon

Janice Porter: 00:00:17

tomorrow. It's tomorrow. It's actually three,

Janice Porter: 00:00:20

three o'clock in the afternoon, but it's tomorrow for you.

Janice Porter: 00:00:23

You're, you're on

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:23

Wednesday. I can, I'm looking outside, and I can

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:26

tell you, the future looks bright.

Janice Porter: 00:00:28

Thank you so much. So are you used to this,

Janice Porter: 00:00:32

like you work with a lot of people in in the US and Canada,

Janice Porter: 00:00:36

or just the US? I'm not sure, but

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:40

time, yes, most places around the world, it's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:43

sort of either end of the day. Yeah, the time zones align,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:46

right? That's the beauty of this technology, isn't it? We just

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:00:50

get to connect with so many more people.

Janice Porter: 00:00:52

Totally. I know that that was one of the good

Janice Porter: 00:00:54

things that came out of COVID, I think, if nothing else. But

Janice Porter: 00:00:57

yeah, so let's start Sloan with your story, what was your

Janice Porter: 00:01:01

turning point when it came to money and personal

Janice Porter: 00:01:04

transformation? I know you've got a story, and I'd like you to

Janice Porter: 00:01:07

share it. Yeah,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:09

it definitely was the story. When I was 12 years

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:12

old, I found out the hard way what financial devastation feels

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:17

like, and that was by virtue of mum and dad. You know, they had

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:21

a business, and they experienced bankruptcy, and as a result,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:25

they lost their business. We had a really nice life. We lost our

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:28

family home, and of course, a few years later, we actually

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:32

lost our family unit as well, because mum and dad's marriage

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:34

didn't survive all of that. So it was, yeah, I guess, an

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:39

insight, yeah, it was an insight. I didn't I wasn't

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:44

looking for, but as a 12 year old, and it's very difficult to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:47

understand. But when you see the impact of finances up close and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:51

personal, and you don't understand money as a 12 year

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:53

old, not many do. It's sent me down a road, and I ended up

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:01:57

working for a bank straight out of school. So that was not the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:02:01

bank that was involved in my parents bankruptcy.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:02:04

Unfortunately, I don't know how that would have gone down, but

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:02:06

yeah, I always was interested to know more about money, because I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:02:11

just had to learn. I couldn't understand

Janice Porter: 00:02:13

that's cool. My little granddaughter was there

Janice Porter: 00:02:17

was a picture taken at school the other day. She's at like an

Janice Porter: 00:02:19

Outdoor School, and they were sitting out in the forest, and

Janice Porter: 00:02:22

she had this box in front of her. She's in kindergarten, so

Janice Porter: 00:02:26

she's almost six, and she they had all different kinds of

Janice Porter: 00:02:30

money, in coins and paper money. And I asked her last weekend, I

Janice Porter: 00:02:35

said, So tell me what you were doing with that box of money.

Janice Porter: 00:02:38

She said we were learning about money. I can tell you, grandma,

Janice Porter: 00:02:40

that the the $100 bill is this color. And the thing she said,

Janice Porter: 00:02:48

the 50, I think orange, and then the $50 bill is pink or red, and

Janice Porter: 00:02:52

the $20 bill is green, this is Canadian money, and so on. And

Janice Porter: 00:02:55

she was like, right into it. And I said, Oh, that's so good. So

Janice Porter: 00:03:00

yeah, she likes money. She knows that she can spend, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:03:03

money at the dollar store. And, yeah, you've got it and you

Janice Porter: 00:03:06

don't have it, but she likes to spend it too. But

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:03:08

and how good are they giving them a tangible

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:03:11

experience of coins and notes, where so often we grab our phone

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:03:14

and tap these days,

Janice Porter: 00:03:16

I know that's so true, but then it's the same

Janice Porter: 00:03:18

with everything, right? Old School, new school, I know it's

Janice Porter: 00:03:20

so true, and they do need to have it's like the telling the

Janice Porter: 00:03:24

time thing and the tying the shoelaces thing. They don't get

Janice Porter: 00:03:27

the old fashioned way quite often, but they need to have

Janice Porter: 00:03:31

something. Yeah. Anyway, we think anyway. So you describe

Janice Porter: 00:03:36

yourself as the Buddhist financial coach. How did

Janice Porter: 00:03:40

mindfulness become part of your financial philosophy?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:03:45

I think it became part of my life first as a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:03:49

result. Yeah, like my background is 30 years in corporate life,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:03:55

banking and wealth management, and I only exited in 2021 and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:00

then started what I'm doing now, but back when I was 40, so

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:05

that's almost 11 years ago. Now I'm still the big five. Oh, but

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:10

yeah, I was just a big ball of stress at work, and I thought,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:15

you know, I need some way to calm my farm. So I decided that

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:19

I'd go and learn to meditate. I thought that that would be

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:21

easier than recovering from a heart attack or a stroke. So

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:26

very wisely, fortunately, I didn't get to find out. Yeah, so

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:29

that was I went to learn, actually, transcendental

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:31

meditation, which is, there's a lot of research behind it, which

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:35

is one of the reasons I chose it. And I didn't know anything

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:38

about Buddhism in that stage, but that set me on a journey

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:41

where, always that personal development, that theme that I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:45

had running through my life, morphed into, over time,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:48

spiritual development and I started to explore different

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:52

teachings coming from a Christian background, is what

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:54

was going to add value to my life. And so, yeah, it just

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:56

ended up resonating with me, particularly, you know, kindness

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:04:59

and. Passion as I started to move more from chasing ambition

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:04

in my life to what was meaningful. And that occurred

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:08

more and more through my mid 40s, where I realized chasing or

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:13

climbing that corporate ladder, even though I was getting where

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:15

I wanted to get, it wasn't doing the job I thought it was going

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:18

to do in terms of making me happy. So yeah, that's sort of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:21

where that all came from, and it just naturally spreads, I think,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:24

throughout all our life. And that's true of things that are

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:27

great for us and also some things that are not good for us.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:30

Sometimes we just need to make sure we're on the right track.

Unknown: 00:05:33

So do you have children? Yes, and they are,

Unknown: 00:05:38

yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:05:38

and they were in their formative years when you

Janice Porter: 00:05:41

started to have this happen? Yes,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:44

they would have been. So my eldest son actually

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:48

turned 25 yesterday, and sorry, our eldest son, and then we had

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:54

a six year gap, and our daughter's 18 turning 19, so

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:05:57

she's in her first year of college this year.

Janice Porter: 00:06:01

So yeah. So I just wonder if, yeah, that would

Janice Porter: 00:06:04

have had a big piece in terms of spending more time with them,

Janice Porter: 00:06:09

and as they got older, I would think, you know, you want to be

Janice Porter: 00:06:12

there for them, and your stressful job at the bank kept

Janice Porter: 00:06:16

you there longer and things like that, right?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:19

Yeah, absolutely. I'd like to say that it was, it

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:21

turned my world on its head immediately, but that's not

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:24

true. It was, it was a gradual probably like turning a big

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:27

cruise ship. It doesn't happen on a dime. It takes a long time.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:32

Yeah, of course,

Janice Porter: 00:06:33

yeah. But that that's very cool. Did your

Janice Porter: 00:06:35

family follow in your footsteps? Or is that something that's just

Janice Porter: 00:06:39

you?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:40

We all want to learn to meditate together, the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:43

transcendental. So they've got those skills there. I'm probably

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:47

the most regular out of my family, and I guess that makes

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:49

sense. I was the driving force of wanting to go. But No,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:52

they've visited the local monastery that I go to, but it's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:06:56

not something that they've picked up, and it's one of those

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:01

philosophies. It's not about proselytizing anyway. It's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:04

Right, exactly, really something, something that people

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:06

discover. And it's a philosophy that makes sense in various

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:09

different ways. It's It can even sit quite well alongside

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:12

Christianity.

Janice Porter: 00:07:13

Okay, so in your work now as a financial coach,

Janice Porter: 00:07:21

what do you find is the biggest roadblock when it comes to

Janice Porter: 00:07:24

talking about money with your clients? And again, I let's just

Janice Porter: 00:07:28

clarify. I know you work with couples, families and you also

Janice Porter: 00:07:32

work with business owners, right and correct? That's right. So

Janice Porter: 00:07:36

whichever way you want to go on, this is fine. I think it's

Janice Porter: 00:07:39

probably,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:41

yeah, there is a big crossover between the two,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:44

and often it's all bundled up. Within one couple, you'll have

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:48

one professional person and one that owns a business. And of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:51

course, they help each other out, but by the time we're

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:55

having our first conversation, they've already taken a really

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:07:59

important step, and that's sort of creating, realizing that this

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:02

is something they want to work on, and it doesn't mean there's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:05

necessarily huge problems. And a lot of my clients, they've got

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:08

really quite good incomes, they just need to be more intentional

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:10

and actually give it time. We're all super busy these days. You

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:14

know, it's the busyness epidemic, but setting aside some

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:17

time to actually start conversations is step one. So I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:22

think life is the answer to that question. We can allow it to get

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:26

in the way if we're not careful, particularly if you get home at

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:30

the end of a busy week, it's not something natural for many

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:34

people to sit down and have you know Friday night finances as a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:37

conversation topic. It's just not going to happen, right? So

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:40

we do need dedicated space to do that. And the second thing I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:44

would second and final thing, I'd point out, is we also need

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:47

to have a reasonable foundation of trust and openness, you know,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:52

trust to talk to other people, but also trust to talk to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:54

themselves and each other, to have to each other, that

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:08:58

interpersonal component, we truly are in it together with

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:09:03

our partners when we're talking about money. So, but we, we

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:09:06

don't always act like that. So bringing them together and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:09:09

actually coalescing a team, that's it's there, but we just

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:09:14

need to get it, you know, operating functionally.

Janice Porter: 00:09:17

That's totally true. I can relate to that. So

Janice Porter: 00:09:20

tell me, though, when you're working with people, your

Janice Porter: 00:09:22

philosophy around it, because I know there's different ones

Janice Porter: 00:09:26

where I know, I think of a very famous American woman who's all

Janice Porter: 00:09:31

about budgeting. Everything's about budgeting. Then I think of

Janice Porter: 00:09:34

others, another woman actually, who's big in finance in the

Janice Porter: 00:09:38

States, and she was a like a financial coach as well, I think

Janice Porter: 00:09:44

is what she called herself. She's all about paying, paying

Janice Porter: 00:09:50

yourself, investing as well as saving. So there's different

Janice Porter: 00:09:54

philosophies. Where do you fit in?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:09:57

Yeah, look, I'll probably go across a broad.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:00

Spectrum of those. And whilst I do have a framework which I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:03

didn't create, I've certainly made my own touches to it. But

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:09

really, what I think is, at the end of the day, it's about

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:13

meeting people where they are. It's no good me talking about a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:16

certain principle or philosophy if they've got a part of their

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:20

financial life that is literally on fire, not literally figures

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:23

figuratively on fire, and we need to deal with that. Okay, we

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:28

don't. We don't talk about interior decorating of a house

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:31

if it's on fire. Let's deal with the most pressing issue first,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:34

and we'll get to that. But I personally budget. I like it,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:40

and with clients I do, I refer to the term as spending plan,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:45

which, again, I think it softens that and makes it more

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:48

accessible to people. It also reinforces, from my perspective,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:51

that it's okay to spend, we just need to make sure it's high

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:55

quality spending, which means that it's like, it's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:10:58

intentional, it's on purpose, it's lined up with things that

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:01

are meaningful to you and your family and your goals, not

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:04

driven by whatever the latest marketing campaign that you saw

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:07

was that tends to be low quality, Doom, late night, Doom.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:13

Scrolling on whatever social media you're watching is

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:16

unlikely to grow your financial strength. So, yeah, I come I use

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:21

that with clients. We do do a deep dive up front, and so

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:25

where's the money going? And that's important, because to map

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:29

out a journey, same as a GPS, you need to know where you are

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:31

first. We do that, but later, later on, it really becomes the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:36

litmus test, becomes, are we regularly paying our bills, and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:41

then are we meeting our savings and investing goals, slash debt

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:45

reduction? If they are, if they're dealing with that as

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:47

well. Because if all those things are happening, the rest

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:51

of the day to day, spending should be within the realms of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:54

okay, and we don't need to be perfect. It's such an important

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:11:58

thing I reinforce with all my clients. You know, with all of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:01

our progress, perfection is too high standard for any one of us

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:05

to meet. So, yeah, I think I draw from all of those different

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:08

philosophies.

Janice Porter: 00:12:10

Okay, fair enough. And do you find whether

Janice Porter: 00:12:13

you're working with because the principles are the same, whether

Janice Porter: 00:12:16

it's in a business or in a in a marriage, we'll say, do you find

Janice Porter: 00:12:21

that one person's the spender and one person's usually the

Janice Porter: 00:12:25

saver? Or do you ever find them aligned in a good way or a bad

Janice Porter: 00:12:29

way?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:31

There's so many different combinations of it.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:33

Yes, if you get two spenders together, that can be a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:37

challenge if it's uninhibited spending. But you know, it's the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:42

same as being an extrovert or an introvert. We might have a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:45

natural inclination however, we can adopt the other style in

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:48

certain circumstances. So it's situational. So even though you

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:53

might be naturally a saver and you may potentially actually

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:12:57

need some encouragement to spend on some things that actually

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:00

matter to you. And I can think of some specific examples with a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:05

client that were doing quite well, yet the female part of the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:09

equation, she refused to spend on her yoga and pilates, which

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:13

were deeply important to her, not just from a physical

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:16

perspective, but also, for example, the spiritual side of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:19

yoga, etc. And she wasn't allowing herself to tap into

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:22

that because she thought they needed to be squirreling away

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:25

every dollar it's you got to find that balance, which, you

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:28

know, buds term for that would be, find the middle way we are

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:32

neither spending everything we've got and then some, or

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:35

saving every penny, yeah, for sure, to Find that balance.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:41

Okay? And so do it to answer your question more directly?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:44

Yeah, it's good to be aware of what your natural information

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:46

is, but we can adjust that. And it's you just need to recognize

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:52

and have the antenna up. Well, okay, I would normally be

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:55

spending. Let's, let's pull that back or put some parameters

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:13:59

around that. Spending is normally the way I describe it.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:01

It's okay.

Janice Porter: 00:14:02

Do you find that you're a marriage counselor

Janice Porter: 00:14:04

sometimes, instead of just the financial counselor?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:09

Yeah, that in a psychologist as well. And it's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:13

interesting, I do get quite a number of clients referred to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:16

me, single clients from family lawyers who they're on the other

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:19

side of, you know, a relationship breakdown or a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:22

divorce, and typically seeking, most of them are women, and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:25

then, most often seeking to reassert themselves financially,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:29

sort of reclaim their own agency. It, but yeah,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:33

definitely, money interweaves with so many areas of our life.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:36

It is that source of one of the most frequently cited sources of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:41

disagreement and also one of the main contributors to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:14:44

relationship breakdown. Absolutely, I was

Janice Porter: 00:14:47

going to ask this question, which I think we've

Janice Porter: 00:14:49

just answered, but there's piece to it. How do emotions, past

Janice Porter: 00:14:53

experiences or upbringing influence the way we handle

Janice Porter: 00:14:56

money with other people, period? And. I think one of the things

Janice Porter: 00:15:01

that we haven't touched on there is, well, you experienced it

Janice Porter: 00:15:07

firsthand when you were 12, and your parents lost their

Janice Porter: 00:15:11

business, so you had that experience. I remember when I

Janice Porter: 00:15:14

was young, my father always, you know, quoting all these, you

Janice Porter: 00:15:22

know, money doesn't grow on trees. And you know, he used to

Janice Porter: 00:15:26

say this one that's never went away from me, it's not a crime

Janice Porter: 00:15:29

to be poor. It's a crime to look poor. Now that can take you down

Janice Porter: 00:15:33

a really bad path of spending Okay, and right. And so those

Janice Porter: 00:15:39

things that we learn as a child around or we did. I don't know

Janice Porter: 00:15:44

if we sit around the table anymore the way that we used to

Janice Porter: 00:15:46

at dinner and things like that, but, you know, things that our

Janice Porter: 00:15:49

parents teach us, it's hard to break those habits.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:15:55

Yeah, absolutely. And there's some really good

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:15:58

neurological reasons why, and it's the way that we learn as As

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:03

humans, we sort of absorb everything, almost by osmosis.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:06

And our brain really doesn't have the capacity to be

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:08

discerning about the information until we're really in our early

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:12

teens. It just almost adopts and accepts what it's seeing and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:17

experiencing as the truth or relevant or and oftentimes

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:22

useful when it may not be a useful behavior. So it's worth

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:26

examining those like our caregivers and our parents. They

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:28

did the best they possibly could. I don't think anyone sets

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:31

out to provide a core example with how to deal with their

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:35

finances. They're doing what they can, and we still don't

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:39

learn this stuff in schools, so necessarily, whatever we can

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:44

take on board. Yeah, it just is, but, but so beliefs are harder

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:48

to shift, habits and behaviors are easier, not easy, to adjust.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:53

And that's part of the work that we do with people there, and it

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:57

can manifest in so many different ways. And you see this

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:16:59

with like twins, for example, who've been raised in a family

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:03

and have had one parent who might be an alcoholic. One of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:06

them can end up being an alcoholic, the other one refuses

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:10

to drink it all. So our reaction to early life, in the in the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:14

responses and the stimulus can be widely divergent, and I do

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:18

see that in couples, but it's good to bring those money

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:20

stories to the surface, talk about them and so that that's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:25

how we actually strengthen our relationship, not just with

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:28

money, but in our life.

Janice Porter: 00:17:29

Yeah, with each other, for sure. Do you believe

Janice Porter: 00:17:35

in do you see limiting beliefs being part of the issue for

Janice Porter: 00:17:41

people, sometimes,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:43

absolutely, it's a huge factor, and it plays out

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:47

once again, in all different spheres of our life, but with

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:50

finances we may not. And for me, many years it was, I was

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:56

terrified to be in business for myself. It's probably why I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:17:58

spent 30 years in corporate being, you know, in the safe and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:02

secure environment of receiving a paycheck because of what my

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:05

parents I just, I just thought business was risky, and of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:08

course, like we know that it is, but risk isn't to be avoided,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:11

it's to be managed and understood. So I didn't

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:15

appreciate that until I was, gosh, well, into, you know, my

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:18

30s and even early 40s, before I started to think about what that

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:22

might look like. So that's one example. So we may also not

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:26

notice opportunities, because we feel like, well, you know,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:30

that's success is for other people. I don't know anything

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:33

about investing. I won't even try. I won't explore. We push

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:37

ourselves down into these tiny little boxes with our beliefs

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:40

sometimes, but we can also use them to set ourselves free when

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:18:43

we're intentional.

Janice Porter: 00:18:45

So when you were well, maybe even when you were

Janice Porter: 00:18:49

in banking, but I'm wondering if before when you went into

Janice Porter: 00:18:52

business for yourself, did you pick up any any personal

Janice Porter: 00:18:59

development books around money I'm thinking of like Robert

Janice Porter: 00:19:02

Kiyosaki, what's his called? It's just gone from my head now,

Janice Porter: 00:19:07

Rich Dad, rich man, poor man, yeah, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, that

Janice Porter: 00:19:10

one comes to mind. But other ones, did you? Did you get into

Janice Porter: 00:19:13

any of those?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:15

Yeah? Like, even, what? Like, back to the to the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:18

classics, you know, Think and Grow Rich, yes, which for many,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:22

many years I avoided reading because of the title. I thought

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:25

1937 that there's so much knowledge out there, and it's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:31

it's so relevant today, because even though the circumstances

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:33

around us has changed fundamentally, ourselves, the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:37

way we are wired, neurologically and biologically, that hasn't

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:40

shifted. So it's incredibly relevant to us today. You know

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:44

the richest man in Babylon, which is such a short read?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:49

Yeah, it's, it's again, probably from a very similar time, and T

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:53

has been through a parable. I love press, yes, and it's really

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:19:58

easy to engage. Can. Honda, who's a Japanese money expert. I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:03

really like his work. It's very accessible. And I'm thinking of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:08

Dale Carnegie as well and how to how to win friends and influence

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:12

people, because that's all about the science of relating well to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:15

others. Yes, and of course, all our business success is built

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:20

upon being able to relate well and serve with others, not in a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:24

Machiavellian way, but from a very authentic way, which is why

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:29

I love, you know, one of your most recent guests, Chris Vogue,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:33

on the podcast where he was talking about, you know, an area

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:37

that I'm still yet to master, showing up online authentically

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:42

with video content. Yeah, I tend to be very, you know, quite,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:48

quite stayed and sitting up where listening to Chris. I need

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:20:51

to be more authentic and relaxed into it. So, yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:20:54

don't just listen to him. Now, go and look at his

Janice Porter: 00:20:56

LinkedIn videos. Yes, he's on LinkedIn, and he does these

Janice Porter: 00:21:00

silly videos. That's not everybody for sure, but it does

Janice Porter: 00:21:03

make you think right about it, don't? You don't even have to

Janice Porter: 00:21:07

be, you know, standing with a plain background. You could be

Janice Porter: 00:21:10

sitting like you are now on the Zoom video, but just more

Janice Porter: 00:21:13

relaxed, maybe into the conversation, for sure. And I

Janice Porter: 00:21:16

think, yeah, he did have a good message in that, but we have to.

Janice Porter: 00:21:19

And I think the message around that too is is which I think I

Janice Porter: 00:21:25

put out in the show, in the in my message that went out with my

Janice Porter: 00:21:30

newsletter that goes out to say the video or the podcast episode

Janice Porter: 00:21:35

is online now, I put in that one done is better than perfect,

Janice Porter: 00:21:43

right? Yeah, so Done is better than perfect. So we're, we're

Janice Porter: 00:21:46

going aside a little bit, but you're right in the sense that,

Janice Porter: 00:21:49

yeah, we just have to practice. And I know I'm the same as you.

Janice Porter: 00:21:53

I don't like doing it, but the people, if you've got something

Janice Porter: 00:21:57

to say, and it's a value to people, they're not looking at,

Janice Porter: 00:22:01

whether you're, you know, my glasses are on straight or not.

Janice Porter: 00:22:03

They're just looking at. They're listening to what you have to

Janice Porter: 00:22:05

say. And I guess we just have to get over it. But thanks for

Janice Porter: 00:22:09

sharing that, and thanks for a shout out there. That's great.

Janice Porter: 00:22:13

Can you give me an example of where improved financial

Janice Porter: 00:22:18

communication transformed a working relationship like a

Janice Porter: 00:22:24

business, that of the people, the partners in the business,

Janice Porter: 00:22:28

from or an outcome from working with you.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:32

Yeah, absolutely it. And sometimes it plays out

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:35

on a few different levels, one the business owners themselves,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:38

that can be often the first point of engagement, so the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:42

business owner and their spouse or their partner. So and we

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:46

holistic beings. We don't live our personal life at home. It

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:51

comes with us to work. So if there's any financial stress

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:54

going along that's bubbling away, even in our subconscious

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:22:57

and occupying mental space, limiting creativity, so it has

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:01

that positive impact on them. They've actually got more

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:04

headspace to be able to truly be in their business when they are

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:07

there, rather than worrying about the financial side of it.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:10

Because, you know, worrying about our finances, I'm not

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:13

worrying about it. Dealing with our finances is important.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:16

Worrying about them is not helpful. But building our

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:19

business that we think about what mindset will be useful for

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:23

us to make better decisions, to think about products and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:27

services enhancements for our clients, to think about how

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:30

we're looking after our very best clients. That requires, you

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:33

know, an open, calm, relaxed and creative mindset. You know, we

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:38

wouldn't plug in if we had the choice and a mindset that was

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:42

anxious, stressed and fearful, to try and make good quality

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:45

decisions, would we yet? So often we do that. So that's some

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:49

that's the personal side there of what I think, what I've seen,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:52

play out. But also when I'm working with a business and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:55

their staff around financial well being, that's more

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:23:58

principles based. It's the same framework. I'm just not going as

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:02

deep with them, because it's not a one on one relationship, but

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:06

that makes a big difference as well to productivity, to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:11

reduction in absenteeism and a reduction in turnover or

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:15

resignations leaving the job, chasing a few extra $1,000 down

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:19

the road, which is sort of understandable, but it's not

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:22

really addressing the root issue, which is often our

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:25

relationship with money and how we are working with it, and also

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:28

what we think is possible, what steps we're following that can

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:31

be fundamental to help us there. That's the stuff that I work on.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:35

Again. You know, we achieve results in business through our

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:38

teams. It makes sense to help them be at their very best when

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:42

they are at work as well, and that means financial well being.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:46

It's not just a perk that's offered, even though it's often

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:24:49

described to that, it's actually a driver of productivity

Janice Porter: 00:24:53

for sure. Okay, who's your what's your ideal

Janice Porter: 00:24:56

client? Um.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:00

Mean, I would say it is that nice mix of a

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:03

professional person and a business owner, definitely in

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:08

that same relationship or one or the other. I tend to attract

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:11

people through the wonderful world of LinkedIn, which is

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:13

where I hang out a lot as well, too. And so unsurprising that I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:19

suppose that's the type of people that I attract, the other

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:22

thing about them is they're looking to move to a new level,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:26

not just with their finances, but also elevating their life.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:29

That that key thing, and I I, in my mind, think about, you know,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:34

Maslow's hierarchy of needs, moving beyond that safety and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:38

security, where finances are right in our face to exploring.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:42

Once we deal with that and get that on track, we don't need to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:45

solve it to start moving forward. We just need to know

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:48

we're on the right pathway. But then you know what? What am I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:51

becoming on purpose? It's my to be list, rather than my to do

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:25:56

list and growing, growing into what we could contribute to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:01

others, the community, and sometimes that means career

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:04

changes or going back to study. I really love people who are on

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:09

their way somewhere and trying very much to happen to their

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:13

life and happen to their finances, rather than

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:15

experiencing it as an external force.

Janice Porter: 00:26:18

So you have two children. You grown children and

Janice Porter: 00:26:23

yes, did you teach them to to be able to be independent and to to

Janice Porter: 00:26:32

have certain guidelines around money at an early age?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:38

Yes, look some of it by watching. I know it wasn't

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:43

always doing things well, but it got progressively better and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:47

better. So but some of them very deliberately as well, because

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:51

they will absorb, they will see what's happening. And wonderful

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:55

things that are really great to see is even goal setting, like

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:26:58

as as a family or as a couple having goals, and they don't

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:02

need to be financial goals, right? But visible somewhere,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:05

because, you know, that says, Okay, I can choose to move

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:09

towards something, I can set that aspiration, I can take

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:13

steps, and I can get there. And that's broadly applicable to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:16

life and our finances. So that's a really good lesson, and I'm

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:21

super proud of my my son, and he's, he did a five year degree,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:26

or double degree after school, and so he's, he's now, I mean,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:30

his third year of full time work. But even when he started

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:32

working part time, I think that that is a critical age in their

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:36

teenage years, where they're starting to have that part time

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:38

job bring in some income. It becomes real for them, then

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:43

being able to sort of understand that transition between, I give

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:46

X hours I get this reward, and it's just like, oh gosh, I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:49

really start to think about, you know, that pair of shoes

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:52

actually represents 10 hours worth of work for me. Is it

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:27:56

worth it?

Janice Porter: 00:27:57

Did they get allowances?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:28:00

Not really. So certainly nothing large. It was

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:28:04

more so just around more little bit of spending money, like it

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:28:07

might have been 10 or $20 that nothing, nothing significant. Of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:28:12

course, there was chores that went with that. Ah, okay,

Janice Porter: 00:28:15

yes, funny, like my granddaughter, this is, this

Janice Porter: 00:28:19

is what they see now, okay, she's, I said five and a half,

Janice Porter: 00:28:22

almost six, actually, and going for coffee with mom and grandpa.

Janice Porter: 00:28:28

They have a Starbucks card, right? Or whatever, or their

Janice Porter: 00:28:33

credit card. It could be either. So before Christmas, Amara said,

Janice Porter: 00:28:39

I want my own card, Grandpa, I want my own card. It's not

Janice Porter: 00:28:43

money, it's the card, right? So she got, like, a card, a

Janice Porter: 00:28:48

Starbucks card that had 10 hot chocolates on it, kids hot

Janice Porter: 00:28:52

chocolates on it, so she could go and present her own card.

Janice Porter: 00:28:54

When she went, Oh, that's like, you think it's so funny, because

Janice Porter: 00:28:58

that it's like, is that? Does that relate to money? Well, in a

Janice Porter: 00:29:02

way, it does, because once the card's finished, it's finished,

Janice Porter: 00:29:04

right? So, yes, yeah, I don't know. It's just so funny to see.

Janice Porter: 00:29:08

It's such a different world today. Anyway, that's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:12

also about agency as well, being able to interact

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:15

with and impact the world in a way that that hopefully service,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:19

yeah, control is a big one as before, being able to have the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:22

sense of control, not feeling controlled Exactly. Yeah, and,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:26

and for women, super important as well. Like, you know, I'm

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:30

really working with my daughter now, a lot more around

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:35

investing, because my son took on board all those lessons and

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:40

has really he will hopefully be into his own home in the next

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:45

couple of years or so, which is very challenging in our country,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:48

because it's one of the most expensive real estate markets in

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:51

the world.

Janice Porter: 00:29:51

Oh, wow, more so than here. Yeah, wow. Okay,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:29:55

look, I think you guys are up there as well.

Janice Porter: 00:29:57

Yeah, yeah. It's terrible. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah.

Janice Porter: 00:30:00

Okay, so last question, not well, second to last question,

Janice Porter: 00:30:06

this is more, I think, I think I know what you're going to say,

Janice Porter: 00:30:09

but what I'd like your take on curiosity. I love curiosity. I'm

Janice Porter: 00:30:15

very curious person. Do you think it's innate or learned?

Janice Porter: 00:30:20

And second part is, what are you most curious about these days?

Janice Porter: 00:30:23

So there's no right or wrong answer, of course, but what's

Janice Porter: 00:30:26

your take on it?

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:30

I think, I think some people are more naturally

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:35

curious, but I think it can be developed. And I wish I could

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:38

think of the name of the French philosopher who, when you know

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:41

he was asked about nature and nurture, his response was, you

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:46

know, well, that both are, both are important. It's a little bit

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:50

like, like asking which is more important to the area of a field

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:54

the length or the breadth. I always think about that. It's

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:30:59

important, and we can develop there as well. But what I'm most

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:02

curious about right now is particularly in the world of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:07

financial wellbeing for employees. And I've actually

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:11

jumped in this year. I'm part of the global wellbeing Institute

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:16

and their workplace wellbeing initiative, so that operates out

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:19

of the US, and I'm one of 18 professionals around the world

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:23

that are contributing towards that and asking important

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:26

questions about how we we deliver more wellbeing at work.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:29

Obviously, my focus is financial wellbeing, so I'm really curious

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:32

about all the interactions there, and the most effective

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:36

ways that we can help our employees thrive, which

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:39

absolutely delivers great outcomes for business owners as

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:31:42

well.

Janice Porter: 00:31:43

That's fantastic. I love it. So last question,

Janice Porter: 00:31:47

what would you say to my listeners who want to take a

Janice Porter: 00:31:51

next step? What's one thing they can do this week to move toward

Janice Porter: 00:31:56

mindful financial alignment in you know, through work or

Janice Porter: 00:32:01

through their personal relationships.

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:06

If they're part of a partnership, you know, as

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:08

in, could be business partnership, but also spouses

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:11

and life partners there as well. I would be booking a 15 minute

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:16

chat about money and start that journey. You don't need to be

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:20

perfect. And I literally will say to people, regular

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:24

conversations are more important. Regular short

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:26

conversations are more important than once every six months

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:29

spending two hours looking at your finances. The latter will

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:33

drive you crazy. The other will actually become an empowering

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:37

source of driving your finances and your relationships literally

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:41

set a timer on your on your iPhone when you sit down for 15

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:44

minutes, give yourself permission to stop the

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:46

conversation, because if you're regularly having them, you will

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:49

get much better at talking about the things that are important

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:52

this week, this month, in that 15 minute time slot. And of

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:32:57

course, yeah, I can share, share more about that, but talk about,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:33:01

yeah, that's really important

Janice Porter: 00:33:03

conversation. They can book that time with you

Janice Porter: 00:33:05

and see see what it's all about. That would be awesome. Yeah. So

Janice Porter: 00:33:10

you do remind us that relationships flourish when we

Janice Porter: 00:33:13

have the courage to communicate, even about the tough stuff like

Janice Porter: 00:33:16

money, through mindfulness, compassion and practical action.

Janice Porter: 00:33:20

I know that you help people align their financial lives with

Janice Porter: 00:33:23

their deeper values, whether So, whether you're just starting out

Janice Porter: 00:33:26

or years into a relationship, your message is clear. Talking

Janice Porter: 00:33:30

about money isn't just smart, it's essential for lasting

Janice Porter: 00:33:33

connection. And this was delightful, and considering

Janice Porter: 00:33:39

that, like We met by chance, somebody I know introduced us,

Janice Porter: 00:33:42

somebody you had met randomly too, right? And yes, and I love

Janice Porter: 00:33:47

that it was easy to talk to you, and that we had a good

Janice Porter: 00:33:50

conversation, that I hope my listeners will see as food for

Janice Porter: 00:33:54

thought when it comes to financial well being, because,

Janice Porter: 00:33:58

yeah, it's a good one, and it's a necessity. So

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:02

thank you so much for the opportunity. Oh, well,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:06

first off, thank you, and really appreciate the opportunity to

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:09

talk with you.

Janice Porter: 00:34:10

And where can, where can my audience find you?

Janice Porter: 00:34:13

Yeah,

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:14

the most relevant place to find me is LinkedIn, I

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:17

believe. And I did a search this morning. I am the only Sloane

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:20

Wilkins on LinkedIn, okay, oh, okay, if you type that in, you

SLOAN WILKINS: 00:34:25

should be able to find me.

Janice Porter: 00:34:26

Yeah, all right, perfect. And please, if you like

Janice Porter: 00:34:29

what you heard and it's it sparked something for you around

Janice Porter: 00:34:32

financial well being, please reach out and connect with

Janice Porter: 00:34:36

Sloan, either on LinkedIn, or go even further and check out his

Janice Porter: 00:34:39

website. Is Sloan with an E, a female name, and Sloan without

Janice Porter: 00:34:43

any the male version, or is it just, yeah, oh, okay, I didn't

Janice Porter: 00:34:48

know that before, but, but now I do. So thank you for that. Thank

Janice Porter: 00:34:52

you for being here and appreciate your time, and thank

Janice Porter: 00:34:56

you for listening. Remember to stay connected and be.

Janice Porter: 00:35:00

Remembered wonderful I.