Keeping Your Seat at the Table | RR227

Janice Porter: 00:00:00

Hi everyone and welcome to this week's episode

Janice Porter: 00:00:03

of relationships rule. My guest this week is coming to us from

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Northern California and I'm so excited to talk to her. You

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know, it's it's unbelievable actually how many things have

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happened in common with us since we met. Her name is Nori, Java.

Janice Porter: 00:00:18

Please welcome me. welcome her to the show with me. Welcome

Janice Porter: 00:00:21

nori. Nice to have you on the show.

Nori Jabba: 00:00:24

Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here.

Janice Porter: 00:00:26

Well, it started, it all really started with me

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getting a message from Norreys publicist because she's just

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become a best selling author. She's written a book. And we're

Janice Porter: 00:00:39

going to dig in and talk about that today. But what's so

Janice Porter: 00:00:42

strange is I said, Well, I don't know if I will have nori on my

Janice Porter: 00:00:47

podcast, I have to talk to her first because I like to meet

Janice Porter: 00:00:50

people before. It feels like it's the right thing to do. And,

Janice Porter: 00:00:55

of course, Norreys publicist said, of course, she'd be happy

Janice Porter: 00:01:00

to meet with you. Well, we never stopped talking, did we, from

Janice Porter: 00:01:03

the minute we we started and there were so many things that

Janice Porter: 00:01:06

came up for us that were I didn't know similar or the fact

Janice Porter: 00:01:12

that you know, Vancouver was like, so exciting to me that

Janice Porter: 00:01:15

you've called it your second home.

Nori Jabba: 00:01:17

This my second home and my favorite place on earth.

Janice Porter: 00:01:22

Well, so right away, how could I not have you

Janice Porter: 00:01:24

on my podcast, right, it was just it was a given, but we just

Janice Porter: 00:01:27

hit it off right away. And so I'm very excited to share nori

Janice Porter: 00:01:31

with my audience here. So nori wrote this book called Keeping

Janice Porter: 00:01:36

your seat at the table, which is really part memoir, and part

Janice Porter: 00:01:41

guidebook, and I love the style that that you write in nori and

Janice Porter: 00:01:47

that you you actually you're sharing a lot of you in this

Janice Porter: 00:01:51

book. And so I can see where it's like, it's your journey to

Janice Porter: 00:01:56

where you are, but it's also a lot of food for thought around

Janice Porter: 00:02:00

women, middle, middle age, women really 40 plus women not, I

Janice Porter: 00:02:07

won't say middle aged, I'll say 40 Plus, and the things that

Janice Porter: 00:02:11

have that we experienced that we weren't expecting. So I'd like

Janice Porter: 00:02:15

to ask you first, you know, how did you come to, to write this

Janice Porter: 00:02:19

book, because it's really quite interesting, the way it's

Janice Porter: 00:02:23

written and what it's about.

Nori Jabba: 00:02:24

Thank you. So I wrote it, kind of us therapy,

Nori Jabba: 00:02:29

printing and as an outlet for my frustration in dealing with job

Nori Jabba: 00:02:36

hunting as a middle aged woman, and the books really designed

Nori Jabba: 00:02:42

for women over 40, even though I'm over 50. But I learned that

Nori Jabba: 00:02:47

women in their 40s face this just as much as women in their

Nori Jabba: 00:02:51

50s. And I really started facing it in my 40s. And it just gets

Nori Jabba: 00:02:56

worse and worse and worse as we age. And I just, I just couldn't

Nori Jabba: 00:03:01

put up with it anymore. And I had to stop job hunting, I

Nori Jabba: 00:03:05

actually just gave it up and decided to write a book about my

Nori Jabba: 00:03:09

journey. And then I decided well, enough for this, I'm going

Nori Jabba: 00:03:13

to start my own company if nobody's going to hire me. So I

Nori Jabba: 00:03:15

started this had this concept to start this company and joined an

Nori Jabba: 00:03:20

incubator program and a coaching program to help me get motivated

Nori Jabba: 00:03:25

to do that, while writing the book. And I thought, Oh, this

Nori Jabba: 00:03:28

will be great. I'll write this book, keeping your seat at the

Nori Jabba: 00:03:31

table about a woman who wasn't hired and started her own

Nori Jabba: 00:03:34

company and did amazing things. And during the process, I

Nori Jabba: 00:03:38

decided not to start the company table bad idea, if you will,

Nori Jabba: 00:03:43

decided to just focus on writing the book. And lo and behold, in

Nori Jabba: 00:03:48

writing the book, I did get a job. And I'm very happy with

Nori Jabba: 00:03:53

that. Now I'm actually on my second job since I started

Nori Jabba: 00:03:56

writing a book I was stolen by another company.

Janice Porter: 00:04:00

I away I think is your dream job, right?

Nori Jabba: 00:04:03

I love it. I'm so happy. And you know, there's so

Nori Jabba: 00:04:06

much more to unpack with that too. But yeah, I just got fed

Nori Jabba: 00:04:10

up. And I it started depleting my self esteem. I wasn't feeling

Nori Jabba: 00:04:14

good about myself, which everybody knows, you know, if

Nori Jabba: 00:04:17

you're not feeling good about yourself, you're not going to

Nori Jabba: 00:04:19

come across well in an interview. And I just needed to

Nori Jabba: 00:04:22

take a step back. But I also wanted to research what was

Nori Jabba: 00:04:25

happening. So I decided to make this a project and do some

Nori Jabba: 00:04:30

interviewing and some research on why it's so hard for middle

Nori Jabba: 00:04:33

aged women to get jobs. So I interviewed an HR director at

Nori Jabba: 00:04:37

one of the companies that declined to hire me. And she

Nori Jabba: 00:04:42

said yes, and we had coffee and I asked her why is it so hard

Nori Jabba: 00:04:45

for white middle aged women and she just completely opened up

Nori Jabba: 00:04:49

with me in the most honest, transparent way. And it was

Nori Jabba: 00:04:53

really brave of her to do that because that were kind of

Nori Jabba: 00:04:57

uncomfortable, and I'm grateful to her for that, and it really

Nori Jabba: 00:05:01

started me on this journey of learning more and more and more.

Nori Jabba: 00:05:04

So

Janice Porter: 00:05:05

can you share just like maybe in an overview

Janice Porter: 00:05:08

of of what the gist of it was? Yes. So putting anything or

Janice Porter: 00:05:12

doing something, a

Nori Jabba: 00:05:13

couple of things that I learned from her, she

Nori Jabba: 00:05:17

said, you know, middle aged women don't listen. And that was

Nori Jabba: 00:05:22

really a hard pill to swallow, because I didn't want to listen

Nori Jabba: 00:05:27

to what she was telling me. I was really taken aback and a

Nori Jabba: 00:05:32

little offended. And thank goodness, she was a middle aged

Nori Jabba: 00:05:35

woman herself, or it probably would have gotten the table. But

Nori Jabba: 00:05:40

I decided to sit up straight, lean in, and listen to what she

Nori Jabba: 00:05:45

had to say, because Am I guilty of this? You know, I actually

Nori Jabba: 00:05:48

felt like I was doing exactly what she said, that middle aged

Nori Jabba: 00:05:52

women do, because I didn't want to hear what she had to say. But

Nori Jabba: 00:05:55

I listened and said, you know, please tell me more. And it goes

Nori Jabba: 00:06:00

both ways. You know, young people sometimes don't listen to

Nori Jabba: 00:06:03

older people. But what she really explained to me was that

Nori Jabba: 00:06:08

sometimes we women have to fight so hard to get our place at the

Nori Jabba: 00:06:13

table. And especially when we are older and experienced and

Nori Jabba: 00:06:17

have that wisdom, and we have so much to share that we do more

Nori Jabba: 00:06:21

sharing than absorbing. And so it really, I stepped back. And

Nori Jabba: 00:06:27

but yeah, I am totally guilty of that. And especially I started

Nori Jabba: 00:06:32

thinking about an incident. And I shared in the book, where I

Nori Jabba: 00:06:36

was sitting at a table with a very important meeting with a

Nori Jabba: 00:06:39

bunch of man, I was either one one other woman or maybe two at

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most. And I instead of listening because I kept being dismissed,

Nori Jabba: 00:06:49

every time I opened my mouth or talked over, that I was looking

Nori Jabba: 00:06:53

for opportunities to jump in, and not listening to what was

Nori Jabba: 00:06:57

being said, but jumping in and using it to my advantage to just

Nori Jabba: 00:07:01

be heard. So, and yet, it was a really important meeting. And

Nori Jabba: 00:07:06

there were some valuable things that people were sharing. But I

Nori Jabba: 00:07:09

think so often as women, we are put in that position unfairly.

Nori Jabba: 00:07:15

And we have to wait to be heard, and not be dismissed. And so we

Nori Jabba: 00:07:20

have to, we have to stop listening as a way to get

Nori Jabba: 00:07:25

ourselves heard. And so I really thought about that. But I need

Nori Jabba: 00:07:30

to become a better listener. And you know, I'm guilty of

Nori Jabba: 00:07:33

interrupting and pushing my way in because we have to be kind of

Nori Jabba: 00:07:38

forceful. So after that moment, I decided I'm going to really

Nori Jabba: 00:07:41

focus on being a better listener. And I am still

Nori Jabba: 00:07:45

actively working on that. And it's a lifelong journey. Right?

Nori Jabba: 00:07:49

I appreciated what she said, Because I am a better listener

Nori Jabba: 00:07:53

because of it. Interesting.

Janice Porter: 00:07:55

That's so interesting. Because yes, we

Janice Porter: 00:07:57

have to we have to fight to be heard, then. It it's such a

Janice Porter: 00:08:04

there's so much emotion, especially women female. Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:08:09

that's right. It's all consuming when that it does affect that

Janice Porter: 00:08:12

and does it also it made me think when you were talking does

Janice Porter: 00:08:15

it also, do you think she meant at all about the fact that if a

Janice Porter: 00:08:21

middle aged woman gets hired into a situation where the

Janice Porter: 00:08:25

younger men or women are managing them that that is the

Janice Porter: 00:08:31

that's where the issue comes?

Nori Jabba: 00:08:33

Absolutely. No, everybody can take from that

Nori Jabba: 00:08:38

message, what works for them, because there's so many nuances

Nori Jabba: 00:08:43

to it. But for me, I have been told, you know, stop

Nori Jabba: 00:08:48

interrupting it's listen a little bit more, you talk too

Nori Jabba: 00:08:51

much or whatever. So for me, that's how I used it to better

Nori Jabba: 00:08:56

myself interested in others, there might be something else.

Nori Jabba: 00:09:00

So the other thing that's also related to that is that older

Nori Jabba: 00:09:06

women, she told me, and I really think older men are in this

Nori Jabba: 00:09:10

category too. Don't listen to young people. And there's a

Nori Jabba: 00:09:14

dismissiveness of those who are starting out in their careers.

Nori Jabba: 00:09:18

And I think young people are guilty of that too. You know,

Nori Jabba: 00:09:22

the hate rumor and all of that dismissing middle aged people

Nori Jabba: 00:09:27

and my kids have done that too. With me like give me your phone,

Nori Jabba: 00:09:32

I'll teach you right and I've learned so much from them. But I

Nori Jabba: 00:09:37

also from that really took it upon myself to actively embrace

Nori Jabba: 00:09:44

being mentored by younger people, not just mentoring

Nori Jabba: 00:09:47

younger people but trying to learn from them. And I'll tell

Nori Jabba: 00:09:51

you that was so important to go through that journey because now

Nori Jabba: 00:09:55

in my job that I have now but I love my boss is I'm much younger

Nori Jabba: 00:10:01

than I am decades. And I don't think I could have dealt with

Nori Jabba: 00:10:06

that effectively before I'd gone through this journey. So, you

Nori Jabba: 00:10:10

know, could you have a really young boss? I, it's, it's an

Nori Jabba: 00:10:15

interesting question. And when you get to a certain age,

Nori Jabba: 00:10:19

everybody is younger than you in the work.

Janice Porter: 00:10:21

And I'm unemployable anyway. So like I

Janice Porter: 00:10:23

had a long time ago, I learned, you know, I used to be a

Janice Porter: 00:10:27

teacher, and I loved teaching in my first life, but it didn't

Janice Porter: 00:10:31

like the bureaucracy around it. And I was very young at the

Janice Porter: 00:10:34

time. And, and then I realized when I left teaching, I still

Janice Porter: 00:10:41

wanted to teach, right, so I then I did corporate training.

Janice Porter: 00:10:45

And that's just another version of teaching kids because the

Janice Porter: 00:10:47

same characters appear right when

Nori Jabba: 00:10:50

I love corporate training, I love teaching.

Janice Porter: 00:10:52

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So but I did it as a

Janice Porter: 00:10:55

contractor, because I didn't want to be locked into

Janice Porter: 00:10:57

something. But then I had a lot to learn about business. So you

Janice Porter: 00:11:01

know, I've come different ways I've learned from younger

Janice Porter: 00:11:04

people, too. And I, I'm actually inspired by the bright, young

Janice Porter: 00:11:10

people that they've come from a completely different beginning.

Janice Porter: 00:11:14

And what they're doing with the world, in some, in some cases is

Janice Porter: 00:11:17

amazing. So, you know, there's a lot to learn from them, too. But

Janice Porter: 00:11:22

so there's a there's a central theme in your book. And this is

Janice Porter: 00:11:26

a question that that has come up that I know, it sort of comes up

Janice Porter: 00:11:30

in your book, as a secondary theme as the importance of

Janice Porter: 00:11:34

relationships with others at the table? And why is it so

Janice Porter: 00:11:37

important to have them? And how does one go about building such

Janice Porter: 00:11:40

a network? Because I know you have like, specific people at

Janice Porter: 00:11:45

your table that are your people, right? Is it like having your

Janice Porter: 00:11:48

own board of directors or just

Nori Jabba: 00:11:51

Yeah, okay, that's pretty much what it is. So the

Nori Jabba: 00:11:55

book is all about, you know, flipping the table, building

Nori Jabba: 00:11:59

your own, you already have a seat at the table, you're at the

Nori Jabba: 00:12:02

head, and developing these strategic partnerships with

Nori Jabba: 00:12:07

others who sit at your table that you choose who's there, so

Nori Jabba: 00:12:11

you're not invited to the table, you're inviting others to your

Nori Jabba: 00:12:14

table. And so it's really shifting your view of success.

Nori Jabba: 00:12:18

But one of the things I learned in my journey is, I'm an

Nori Jabba: 00:12:21

extrovert, I have a lot of great connections, I worked in public

Nori Jabba: 00:12:26

affairs and community relations. And so I know a lot of people

Nori Jabba: 00:12:30

and have some really solid relationships. And I thought,

Nori Jabba: 00:12:33

oh, all of these connections will help me in my job hunt.

Nori Jabba: 00:12:37

Well, guess what? It didn't, it didn't didn't matter, that I had

Nori Jabba: 00:12:42

a congress person on my reference list and know his cell

Nori Jabba: 00:12:47

phone number and could call him at any time, it just didn't

Nori Jabba: 00:12:50

matter. So what was really kind of a shock to me was that my

Nori Jabba: 00:12:55

networking wasn't effective for me, and I know what this is your

Nori Jabba: 00:12:59

job is to help him help people with their networking on

Nori Jabba: 00:13:02

LinkedIn. And so you know, had all these great connections, but

Nori Jabba: 00:13:07

I had to rethink them, and develop new connections that

Nori Jabba: 00:13:12

were strategically designed to help me at this new table for

Nori Jabba: 00:13:17

myself, this board of directors, if you will, that I was

Nori Jabba: 00:13:19

creating.

Janice Porter: 00:13:22

Okay, so back to the when you were looking for

Janice Porter: 00:13:24

the job, and you had all these connections. You know, my

Janice Porter: 00:13:29

daughter just went through this process of looking for a new

Janice Porter: 00:13:32

job. And she's had to do it a couple of times, and she's not

Janice Porter: 00:13:37

an extrovert, and she doesn't have a big network of people.

Janice Porter: 00:13:41

I'm the one with the network. I'm the one with all the

Janice Porter: 00:13:43

connections, but she wouldn't even listen to me, you know, so

Janice Porter: 00:13:47

that didn't even count. But in the end, what happened, she had

Janice Porter: 00:13:51

maybe 200 to two parts of this, she had like 200 applications

Janice Porter: 00:13:58

that she had put in for a job. And, you know, had a few

Janice Porter: 00:14:02

interviews. And in the end, she got a job Finally, after three

Janice Porter: 00:14:07

months or something. And it turned out that the guy that she

Janice Porter: 00:14:13

went through a first interview with this company, and then the

Janice Porter: 00:14:15

second interview was with this, her manager, her boss, who it

Janice Porter: 00:14:20

turned out she had worked for the same company as him several

Janice Porter: 00:14:24

years ago. They never worked together, but they knew some of

Janice Porter: 00:14:27

the same people. So, okay, she got that job over 200

Janice Porter: 00:14:32

applicants. I don't believe she was the best person for the job.

Janice Porter: 00:14:36

But I believe the fact that he had connection with her made a

Janice Porter: 00:14:40

difference. And I always say to people, it's not what you know,

Janice Porter: 00:14:44

it's who you know. So what you're saying is kind of

Janice Porter: 00:14:47

interesting to me, because in your case, it didn't really help

Janice Porter: 00:14:51

you.

Nori Jabba: 00:14:51

So it could have and, you know, ultimately when I

Nori Jabba: 00:14:55

look back at the job that I did get during the process because I

Nori Jabba: 00:15:01

knew that the executive director, okay, so that's,

Janice Porter: 00:15:04

that's yes. But I

Nori Jabba: 00:15:08

reached out to her to tell her, Hey, I am job

Nori Jabba: 00:15:12

hunting, please hire me, it was because we had this organic

Nori Jabba: 00:15:17

relationship that we've had for 15 years. And she realized a

Nori Jabba: 00:15:21

need for her company. And she reached out to me. And then the

Nori Jabba: 00:15:26

job that I have now I got because of my relationships with

Nori Jabba: 00:15:30

the people that I was working with in my job. So the

Nori Jabba: 00:15:33

connections do help. But I guess the ones that I bought, that I

Nori Jabba: 00:15:40

could rely on to really open doors for me, that wasn't okay.

Nori Jabba: 00:15:45

So I think your story about your daughter is so important too,

Nori Jabba: 00:15:49

because you sometimes aren't aware of how these connections

Nori Jabba: 00:15:53

are going to help you. Right? Right. So so making sure that

Nori Jabba: 00:15:57

you really just think about all of these connections, and

Nori Jabba: 00:16:01

understand that it's great to get the word out that you're job

Nori Jabba: 00:16:04

hunting, you know. But, but rethinking how you use your

Nori Jabba: 00:16:10

contacts. And that, yeah, we can do for them, too, you know, one

Nori Jabba: 00:16:15

of your interviews that I listened to, with Sam, I forget

Nori Jabba: 00:16:19

his last name, um, Jacobs, Jacobs is is stop thinking of it

Nori Jabba: 00:16:25

as a transaction, these relationships, you know, what

Nori Jabba: 00:16:29

can you do for me? What can I do for you, and if you start

Nori Jabba: 00:16:32

looking at it as, what can I do for you, this genuine suddenlink

Nori Jabba: 00:16:37

people will, other people will do things for you.

Janice Porter: 00:16:40

So, and that's an and just to build on that I, I

Janice Porter: 00:16:45

believe that. And it's also though, it's the law of

Janice Porter: 00:16:48

reciprocity. And it's not necessarily, you know, I do

Janice Porter: 00:16:52

something for you, and you do something for me, I do something

Janice Porter: 00:16:55

for you, out of the kindness of my heart, and somebody else out

Janice Porter: 00:16:59

there does something for me, because that's how it works. It

Janice Porter: 00:17:02

doesn't necessarily come back from where it was in the first

Janice Porter: 00:17:06

place. And, and I think that gets misconstrued sometimes. But

Janice Porter: 00:17:11

also, was I gonna say, oh, that, I think it's important with the

Janice Porter: 00:17:20

connections that we have, and the relationships that we build,

Janice Porter: 00:17:24

we have to protect our relationships. And be careful

Janice Porter: 00:17:30

how we use them, right not to take advantage of them. And

Janice Porter: 00:17:35

right, so for example, if I'm introducing you, the new, my new

Janice Porter: 00:17:41

friend, to someone I've known for a long time, I would want to

Janice Porter: 00:17:45

make sure that this person in my connection base or community

Janice Porter: 00:17:50

would be okay with me, bringing someone to them. So I always

Janice Porter: 00:17:54

want to make sure that that happens, I happen to know in

Janice Porter: 00:17:56

these two cases, it'll be fine that we you and I talked about

Janice Porter: 00:17:59

before. But that's kind of to me, it's about protecting your

Janice Porter: 00:18:04

relationships with people so that they end loving on them

Janice Porter: 00:18:09

every once in a while right to keep them to keep them in your

Janice Porter: 00:18:14

circle. So yeah, it's all to me, it's always about people. So

Janice Porter: 00:18:20

that's, that's where I'm coming from there. So there's, I am

Janice Porter: 00:18:24

curious about this. This was one of the questions you had on your

Janice Porter: 00:18:27

sheet, but it's not why I'm asking it. It's because when I

Janice Porter: 00:18:30

was reading your book, and each chapter begins with 100, word

Janice Porter: 00:18:36

summary. Now, I was tempted

Nori Jabba: 00:18:40

to count the words, I have to tell you about them.

Nori Jabba: 00:18:42

They are exactly I

Janice Porter: 00:18:44

didn't because I thought no, that's wasted my

Janice Porter: 00:18:46

time. But okay, so there you go. It is 100 words. Why did you do

Janice Porter: 00:18:50

that? I just love that whole thing.

Nori Jabba: 00:18:52

It's so much fun. So this really came to me through a

Nori Jabba: 00:18:57

friend of mine from college. His name is Grant Faulkner. And he

Nori Jabba: 00:19:02

is executive director of NaNoWriMo, which stands for

Nori Jabba: 00:19:07

National Novel Writing Month, which is an it's actually an

Nori Jabba: 00:19:11

international organization where you challenge yourself to write

Nori Jabba: 00:19:15

a novel in one month, in it's held in the month of November,

Nori Jabba: 00:19:20

and then they have other challenges throughout the year.

Nori Jabba: 00:19:23

But it's this challenge. And he also is the editor of the 100

Nori Jabba: 00:19:30

word story, which is a book that comes out every year, and

Nori Jabba: 00:19:34

everybody submits their 100 word story. And I talked to him about

Nori Jabba: 00:19:40

this. And I just started doing this as an exercise for fun.

Nori Jabba: 00:19:44

It's almost like writing a poem or trying to write a short story

Nori Jabba: 00:19:48

or if you're if you're a journal or you can try to capture your

Nori Jabba: 00:19:52

thoughts. And I also would help my kids edit their papers after

Nori Jabba: 00:19:58

they've written them because they had a twin A 500 word maths

Nori Jabba: 00:20:01

or whatever it was trying to get it down under the limit. So I

Nori Jabba: 00:20:05

was an English major and just enjoy the word cutting, I guess

Nori Jabba: 00:20:09

I'm quite nervous. So I started doing these 100 word summaries

Nori Jabba: 00:20:14

as a way to really capture each the essence of what I was trying

Nori Jabba: 00:20:19

to show and share with every single chapter. And it's, it's a

Nori Jabba: 00:20:25

fun game, it's a fun challenge. And it makes you realize how

Nori Jabba: 00:20:29

important every single word really is. And so I use this

Nori Jabba: 00:20:34

method a lot in my writing to try to wait, you know, if I'm

Nori Jabba: 00:20:38

writing a policy, what am I trying to say? Captured in 100

Nori Jabba: 00:20:42

words? And then you do, you can do with less than 100 words, but

Nori Jabba: 00:20:45

I prefer to do exactly what, okay, there you go, just for the

Nori Jabba: 00:20:50

fun of it, because it is such a challenge to capture the essence

Nori Jabba: 00:20:55

in exactly 100 words. So there's a summary of each, at the

Nori Jabba: 00:20:59

beginning of each chapter, count them, they are exactly 100

Nori Jabba: 00:21:03

words.

Janice Porter: 00:21:04

I love it. And then I am also curious as to how

Janice Porter: 00:21:09

you came up with the, you know, the metaphor of the table,

Janice Porter: 00:21:13

because as, as it's shown throughout the story, there's so

Janice Porter: 00:21:18

many different places and ways to use it. But I'm curious how

Janice Porter: 00:21:21

you came up with that.

Nori Jabba: 00:21:22

So I was actually at a women's leadership conference,

Nori Jabba: 00:21:26

it was a one day conference, and one of the speakers was talking

Nori Jabba: 00:21:30

about keeping your seat at the table or getting your seat at

Nori Jabba: 00:21:33

the table and how women need to have that seat at the table. And

Nori Jabba: 00:21:38

I just started brainstorming about how fun that word is, and

Nori Jabba: 00:21:44

how we use it. And there's just so much you can do with that.

Nori Jabba: 00:21:49

And my chapters in the book are all about, you know, the

Nori Jabba: 00:21:52

metaphor of the table, and how we use it, you know, don't get

Nori Jabba: 00:21:56

pulled under the table, on the table. And, and I think it's

Nori Jabba: 00:22:01

time to think of it in a broader way. And when I was doing my job

Nori Jabba: 00:22:07

hunt, that was the message that came through to me loud and

Nori Jabba: 00:22:11

clear with my journey is that the table was so much more than

Nori Jabba: 00:22:16

just having a seat at the corporate table of success and

Nori Jabba: 00:22:19

what's image we have the table. And you know, it's it's

Nori Jabba: 00:22:23

essential to humanity. The table is where we love where we learn,

Nori Jabba: 00:22:28

where we ask hard questions, and have tough conversations where

Nori Jabba: 00:22:32

we socialize and nourish ourselves and our souls. And so

Nori Jabba: 00:22:38

why am I just so stuck on having a seat at this corporate table?

Nori Jabba: 00:22:42

So I really use the journey to re to shift my view of success

Nori Jabba: 00:22:50

and view of the table to be much more about life fulfillment,

Nori Jabba: 00:22:55

rather than just a corporate seat at the table and feeling

Nori Jabba: 00:22:58

like I'd made it.

Janice Porter: 00:23:00

Yeah, that's awesome. You and you share a lot

Janice Porter: 00:23:03

of things in this book about, you know, being a mom and, and

Janice Porter: 00:23:06

dealing with clutter and seeing that have come from, from your

Janice Porter: 00:23:11

family and things like that. One of the chapters is called Don't

Janice Porter: 00:23:14

table yourself, chapter five, and it's about staying relevant.

Janice Porter: 00:23:19

And and we talked just briefly earlier about, you know, older

Janice Porter: 00:23:25

women, perhaps not listening well, and things like that, but

Janice Porter: 00:23:28

we need to stay relevant. How are you staying relevant?

Nori Jabba: 00:23:33

Well, so in writing this book, I realized I have so

Nori Jabba: 00:23:37

much I need to learn. And we have to stay on top of things,

Nori Jabba: 00:23:42

you have to know the current technology. And as we get older,

Nori Jabba: 00:23:47

it's more and more overwhelmed. There's more. And you know, we

Nori Jabba: 00:23:51

weren't born with AI, with watches on our risks that lead

Nori Jabba: 00:23:56

us to the world. We were born in a different time. And I watched

Nori Jabba: 00:24:01

my mom, and seniors who are literally left behind and

Nori Jabba: 00:24:06

isolated because they can't use a smartphone to call an Uber. Or

Nori Jabba: 00:24:11

it's just, it's just too hard for them to do it. And sometimes

Nori Jabba: 00:24:16

I've been in meetings and I've heard an older person say, Oh,

Nori Jabba: 00:24:20

I'm way too old for that. And I realized, yes, you are. So I am

Nori Jabba: 00:24:26

not going to be that person. I need to stay on top of it all

Nori Jabba: 00:24:30

and learn everything and not be intimidated or overwhelmed by

Nori Jabba: 00:24:34

it. And so you know, I rely on younger people to help me learn

Nori Jabba: 00:24:38

that and make sure that I know all the current technology that

Nori Jabba: 00:24:43

that is relevant for my job, you know, just being able to say I'm

Nori Jabba: 00:24:47

going to take that course or I'm going to learn about go on

Nori Jabba: 00:24:51

LinkedIn learning. LinkedIn learning is incredible what they

Nori Jabba: 00:24:54

have all these courses that you can take. And as part of the

Nori Jabba: 00:24:58

book, I did research on resources for learning new

Nori Jabba: 00:25:01

skills. And I went to nobleworks, which is the job

Nori Jabba: 00:25:05

training center in our metropolitan area here. But

Nori Jabba: 00:25:09

every in the US and probably in Canada, too. All of the

Nori Jabba: 00:25:13

metropolitans have these job training centers, and they're

Nori Jabba: 00:25:16

free, and you can go and they will help you assess your

Nori Jabba: 00:25:18

skills, and figure out what you need to learn. And they will

Nori Jabba: 00:25:22

help you get those skills. So as an older woman in the workplace,

Nori Jabba: 00:25:28

middle aged, I don't like to be called older, but know this for

Nori Jabba: 00:25:31

sure. We need to make sure we stay on top and learn all these

Nori Jabba: 00:25:36

new things. So always staying open to learning new things, and

Nori Jabba: 00:25:39

not being intimidated is really, really important. And that's why

Nori Jabba: 00:25:42

having younger people at your table is important too, because

Nori Jabba: 00:25:46

they show you the way or teach you a new thing. How often have

Nori Jabba: 00:25:50

I been at work, and somebody needed help with Excel? And I

Nori Jabba: 00:25:55

said, Oh, you just do it this way. And I'd sit down and show

Nori Jabba: 00:25:58

them or they would do the same for me. I learned how to how to

Nori Jabba: 00:26:03

change these page breaks that I couldn't get rid of in Word by

Nori Jabba: 00:26:07

watching a YouTube video on it.

Janice Porter: 00:26:09

Yeah. My 12 year old, right.

Nori Jabba: 00:26:14

You've just got to keep learning to stay.

Janice Porter: 00:26:16

Well, yeah, it's so true. But it's funny, you

Janice Porter: 00:26:19

know, when you said old were, you know, I'm older than you.

Janice Porter: 00:26:23

But I don't consider myself old. Anyone just getting started?

Janice Porter: 00:26:27

Yeah, so but when I see, like, over the last couple of days on

Janice Porter: 00:26:32

CNN, two very smart, very old people kind of lose it on in

Janice Porter: 00:26:39

front of, you know, the the world. That's scary, because

Janice Porter: 00:26:43

they didn't know when to stop and move away. I think

Janice Porter: 00:26:46

especially Dianne Feinstein, that was pretty scary. Yeah. And

Janice Porter: 00:26:51

well, and Mitch McConnell, but, you know, you just, I mean,

Janice Porter: 00:26:55

they're brilliant people, but they've gone past, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:26:59

they're, well, we won't get into politics, because I know there's

Janice Porter: 00:27:02

more to that story as well. Right?

Nori Jabba: 00:27:06

When you know, as we age, and if you are going to be

Nori Jabba: 00:27:10

working into your 80s like those two, you better know what's

Nori Jabba: 00:27:15

going on in the world and know the new technology, and be able

Nori Jabba: 00:27:20

to use the communication systems that people use in this day and

Nori Jabba: 00:27:24

age. You know, I, I don't want to tweet, but I am learning now.

Nori Jabba: 00:27:29

It's called x. Learning how to do it and trying to embrace it

Nori Jabba: 00:27:34

because that's what authors use. Okay, my daughter told me, Mom,

Nori Jabba: 00:27:39

you got to do a video on tick tock, tick tock has this book

Nori Jabba: 00:27:43

talk channel. All the authors are using so I am learning how

Nori Jabba: 00:27:48

to do that. Isn't

Janice Porter: 00:27:49

that interesting? Because that I didn't know. So.

Janice Porter: 00:27:51

So how did your daughter know that? Like, is she into the same

Janice Porter: 00:27:56

world as you? I know, she's into Tik Tok, obviously, but how did

Janice Porter: 00:27:59

she

Nori Jabba: 00:27:59

not at all I mean, every young person in there, I

Nori Jabba: 00:28:03

have three daughters in their 20s. And they know all of this.

Nori Jabba: 00:28:06

It's just you're born with it. But no, I, this particular

Nori Jabba: 00:28:12

daughter works in launching people in their music careers.

Nori Jabba: 00:28:17

So she knows how to do that. Sure, of course, is of course

Nori Jabba: 00:28:21

very important, or asking her for years. Yeah, definitely.

Nori Jabba: 00:28:26

Interesting. So we discovered

Janice Porter: 00:28:31

something about this. But I want to ask you

Janice Porter: 00:28:33

about this, your career path has been what you described as

Janice Porter: 00:28:36

squiggly lines instead of an upward arrow pointing to

Janice Porter: 00:28:39

success, and you express how important it is to make peace

Janice Porter: 00:28:43

with your journey. So we discovered that that term was

Janice Porter: 00:28:46

something I recognized was someone who had been a guest on

Janice Porter: 00:28:49

my podcast a few years ago, actually. But so what did that

Janice Porter: 00:28:53

mean to you? And can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Janice Porter: 00:28:56

First, I

Nori Jabba: 00:28:57

can't wait to read her book. Angela, can Lyons book

Nori Jabba: 00:29:03

your soul sisters? For sure. Yeah, I mean, I, I got a

Nori Jabba: 00:29:09

master's degree two years out of undergrad and had this had this

Nori Jabba: 00:29:15

path for myself mapped out and it was an arrow going straight

Nori Jabba: 00:29:20

up. You know, I moved up quickly and had this wonderful job. And

Nori Jabba: 00:29:25

I really thought I was going to be in the C suite. That's what I

Nori Jabba: 00:29:30

had envisioned for myself. And it didn't have that. And it's

Nori Jabba: 00:29:37

okay. It's okay. But it took me until now, to make peace with

Nori Jabba: 00:29:42

the fact that it didn't happen. And I made the conscious choice

Nori Jabba: 00:29:46

not to make it happen when I tabled the job, the company that

Nori Jabba: 00:29:50

I was going to start, and you know, I've had my consulting

Nori Jabba: 00:29:53

business and been called myself president for 10 years or more.

Nori Jabba: 00:29:57

And so I've had that but it's not the same as Starting a

Nori Jabba: 00:30:00

company of large company, but having a squiggly lines career

Nori Jabba: 00:30:07

has given me a richness and opportunities and opened new

Nori Jabba: 00:30:13

doors for me that I never would have had, if I just kept on that

Nori Jabba: 00:30:18

arrow and continued on my corporate career path. And I

Nori Jabba: 00:30:23

didn't, because I wanted to be home with my kids. And it was,

Nori Jabba: 00:30:26

frankly, just too hard. I had an hour and 20 minutes each way

Nori Jabba: 00:30:31

commute. And with two babies, yeah, that is really, really

Nori Jabba: 00:30:36

hard. And you know, kids get ear infections. And you have to, we

Nori Jabba: 00:30:40

would have 3am conversations with quotes, more like fights

Nori Jabba: 00:30:46

over whose job was more important and who we could not,

Nori Jabba: 00:30:50

who could miss work the next day to stay home with kid and that

Nori Jabba: 00:30:53

was before remote work was really a possibility. And so

Nori Jabba: 00:30:57

thank goodness, the worlds has adjusted. And we can be parents

Nori Jabba: 00:31:03

and deal with aging parents. And you know, now I have to take my

Nori Jabba: 00:31:07

mom to the doctor a lot and take time off to do that. But the

Nori Jabba: 00:31:11

world has changed. But the squiggly lines, it was really

Nori Jabba: 00:31:16

hard for me to accept that I didn't do what I set out to do

Nori Jabba: 00:31:20

when I was in my 20s. And is it too late? And so the book is

Nori Jabba: 00:31:25

really about shifting my view of success and really making peace

Nori Jabba: 00:31:30

with those wonderfully squiggly lines with squiggly line, a

Nori Jabba: 00:31:35

curvy line is so much more interesting than a straight

Nori Jabba: 00:31:37

line. Yes, of course, of course,

Janice Porter: 00:31:40

I think to have launched three daughters who I

Janice Porter: 00:31:43

know had busy, high school careers and in sports and music

Janice Porter: 00:31:48

or whatever. Like there's always there was always one going

Janice Porter: 00:31:51

somewhere, right? Or three are all going in three different

Janice Porter: 00:31:54

directions. So to be able to say, hey, you know, they turned

Janice Porter: 00:31:59

out okay, I think is they turned out any wonderful.

Nori Jabba: 00:32:03

Yeah. So because of all of them. And yeah, but those

Nori Jabba: 00:32:06

squiggly lines for me. And I'm still making peace with it.

Nori Jabba: 00:32:11

Don't get me wrong. I've made peace. But it's a it's an

Nori Jabba: 00:32:14

ongoing process. But yeah, it's okay. It's okay to have squiggly

Nori Jabba: 00:32:20

lines.

Janice Porter: 00:32:21

I agree. I you know, because mine didn't go the

Janice Porter: 00:32:24

way it was meant I thought it would go either, but it's all

Janice Porter: 00:32:27

good. Okay, so coming, we're coming close to the end. And,

Janice Porter: 00:32:31

and I wanted to share that I saw in here that you were an avid

Janice Porter: 00:32:38

reader, and that you fell off the wagon a little bit because

Janice Porter: 00:32:42

other things get in the way as they do. And I know I shared

Janice Porter: 00:32:46

with you before we went on air that, you know, I love to read

Janice Porter: 00:32:50

to and I'm always buying books, but they sit in a pile because,

Janice Porter: 00:32:53

you know, I sit and watch something on Netflix at night

Janice Porter: 00:32:56

and said, because I've been in front of a screen all day. And

Janice Porter: 00:32:58

now my eyes really hurt. And I don't want to look at a book.

Janice Porter: 00:33:00

But I don't want to look at it on the Kindle either. I don't

Janice Porter: 00:33:03

like that. I would rather have the book. And so you have in one

Janice Porter: 00:33:08

of these chapters that you that you like audiobooks, but what I

Janice Porter: 00:33:12

wanted to get to was your book

Nori Jabba: 00:33:16

bucket list. Oh, book bucket last year? Yes. Yes,

Nori Jabba: 00:33:20

it's a long list. And there's pressure because you know, how

Nori Jabba: 00:33:25

am I going to read all of those books, but so I went to a

Nori Jabba: 00:33:28

liberal arts college and read for four years straight need

Nori Jabba: 00:33:32

glasses, because I read so much during that time. But after

Nori Jabba: 00:33:37

college, I couldn't touch a book for a long time. And I think

Nori Jabba: 00:33:41

that's very typical. We work hard in school, and we need a

Nori Jabba: 00:33:44

break. And if you've done anything with a lot of reading

Nori Jabba: 00:33:47

and college, you do need a break. And so I started reading

Nori Jabba: 00:33:51

again in my late 20s and 30s. But then I had kids and you know

Nori Jabba: 00:33:55

who has time to read when you're working and juggling a family?

Nori Jabba: 00:33:59

There's no way so I discovered audiobooks. And I can multitask

Nori Jabba: 00:34:04

and walk while I or exercise while I'm listening to podcasts

Nori Jabba: 00:34:08

to audiobooks and I just love it. And I started doing this

Nori Jabba: 00:34:12

during COVID. And I would find that I would be excited and

Nori Jabba: 00:34:17

couldn't wait to get out on my walk because I couldn't put the

Nori Jabba: 00:34:20

book down. My very first audio book was Trevor Noah was born a

Nori Jabba: 00:34:26

crime. I love listening to audiobooks that are narrated by

Nori Jabba: 00:34:31

the author and my book is narrated by citing

Janice Porter: 00:34:37

your version now.

Nori Jabba: 00:34:39

But audiobooks are a wonderful way to help. Check off

Nori Jabba: 00:34:43

those bucket list books. And I can't wait to continue. You

Nori Jabba: 00:34:48

know, I'd love to get out of my walks because what's the last

Nori Jabba: 00:34:51

one

Janice Porter: 00:34:52

that you listen to?

Nori Jabba: 00:34:53

Oh my goodness. I have listened to so many will

Nori Jabba: 00:34:57

and my Maya So, you'll laugh my last one was how to give a TED

Nori Jabba: 00:35:03

talk. Oh, wow. Okay. And that was fabulous. Fabulous. And I

Nori Jabba: 00:35:09

also recently listened to Jay Shetty his book. love science.

Nori Jabba: 00:35:15

That was a really good one to do when

Janice Porter: 00:35:17

you wrote this book you had you were just going

Janice Porter: 00:35:20

to read. I love the titles. I mean, the cleverness, losing my

Janice Porter: 00:35:24

virginity and finding my virginity, Richard Branson,

Nori Jabba: 00:35:27

right, and those who read hardcopy, okay. And he

Nori Jabba: 00:35:31

didn't narrate them. They do. They are actually on my list to

Nori Jabba: 00:35:35

do the audiobook, because those two books were probably two of

Nori Jabba: 00:35:41

the most inspiring books I have ever read. And Richard is just

Nori Jabba: 00:35:46

he is my hero. He is at my table. I hope I can meet him

Nori Jabba: 00:35:50

someday. Oh, wow. I really, really do. And I met these two

Nori Jabba: 00:35:54

women who worked for him. And they worked as misuses for him

Nori Jabba: 00:35:59

on Necker Island, when he went cold retreats. And they were

Nori Jabba: 00:36:03

they were the people that did the massage or everybody. Were

Nori Jabba: 00:36:07

taking breaks in their corporate retreat. I don't know what it

Nori Jabba: 00:36:11

was. But anyway, I felt like oh, my gosh, you, you know him. So I

Nori Jabba: 00:36:15

helped this connection to Richard, but I have a deep

Nori Jabba: 00:36:17

connection with him. I quote his, his talk with his granny

Nori Jabba: 00:36:23

book, and because his granny was 99. And she said, you know, the

Nori Jabba: 00:36:28

best years of my life. I've been in my 90s. And what a wonderful

Nori Jabba: 00:36:34

way to look back on your life that now as an adult woman, she

Nori Jabba: 00:36:39

is happier than she's ever been. I shared that with my mother.

Nori Jabba: 00:36:44

And she burst out laughing. I said, No, not the experience

Nori Jabba: 00:36:48

she's had.

Janice Porter: 00:36:49

So I heard someone else say that Carol

Janice Porter: 00:36:51

Burnett. Oh, yeah.

Nori Jabba: 00:36:53

Yeah. So I asked, I aspire to be that kind of woman

Nori Jabba: 00:36:57

that looks at my later years as the best years of my life. So

Nori Jabba: 00:37:02

that was Richard who inspired me so

Janice Porter: 00:37:04

so you know, I have a connection to him to Zoo.

Janice Porter: 00:37:08

Yes. So a good friend of mine, Jordan Adler, who is an

Janice Porter: 00:37:13

affiliate with a company I'm with, he's an amazing network

Janice Porter: 00:37:18

marketer and speaker and author. And he is on the list that he

Janice Porter: 00:37:24

paid money to go to space with Richard Branson. Okay, so he's

Janice Porter: 00:37:31

already gone to Necker Island a couple of times with the group

Janice Porter: 00:37:35

of people that are going on this mission, when when their time

Janice Porter: 00:37:40

comes, because the first one went up with, with all the, you

Janice Porter: 00:37:44

know, just Richard. And so they're getting ready. So yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:37:48

so he's, and he speaks, he shares experiences at the, at

Janice Porter: 00:37:53

the, at Richard's home with us about it, and it's free. It's

Janice Porter: 00:37:57

fast.

Nori Jabba: 00:37:57

It's an amazing man. And anybody who has ever seen

Nori Jabba: 00:38:01

those books knows what a commitment that is, because they

Nori Jabba: 00:38:05

are not short books, they are very fat 150 500 pages. But

Nori Jabba: 00:38:12

really, highly recommend them. But you know, what he taught me

Nori Jabba: 00:38:15

is that anything's possible. It just his journey of starting

Nori Jabba: 00:38:19

Virgin Records and how it all came together. There was no

Nori Jabba: 00:38:23

plan. It was just, it just happened. And he, he is the kind

Nori Jabba: 00:38:30

of person that just jumps in an opportunity when it presents

Nori Jabba: 00:38:33

itself. And nothing's impossible to him.

Janice Porter: 00:38:37

Right? Doesn't he say? Doesn't he say say yes, and

Janice Porter: 00:38:39

then figure it out?

Nori Jabba: 00:38:42

Exactly. Well, this has been

Janice Porter: 00:38:44

wonderful talking to you. And I'm so excited

Janice Porter: 00:38:46

because your book is fairly new. Yes, it's quite new. And you're

Janice Porter: 00:38:51

getting out there talking to people about it. And I'm sharing

Janice Porter: 00:38:54

it with people by doing this, I hope that you'll get some more

Janice Porter: 00:38:56

people listening and and reading your book. And I feel so blessed

Janice Porter: 00:39:03

to have met you. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Janice Porter: 00:39:07

And maybe if you have one last pearls of wisdom for my

Janice Porter: 00:39:11

audience, that would be awesome.

Nori Jabba: 00:39:13

So if you want a seat at the table, remember that

Nori Jabba: 00:39:17

you already have it, you just helped to build out your table.

Nori Jabba: 00:39:22

Thank you.

Janice Porter: 00:39:23

Thank you, and thank you to my audience, for

Janice Porter: 00:39:26

being here. And if you liked what you heard, please leave a

Janice Porter: 00:39:31

review Oh, and in the shownotes I will put the information for

Janice Porter: 00:39:36

where you can find Nori and find her book so that you can read it

Janice Porter: 00:39:40

too. And

Nori Jabba: 00:39:41

I have a website for the book. It's called Keeping

Nori Jabba: 00:39:44

your seat.com books on Amazon as well. And I'm on LinkedIn, Nori,

Nori Jabba: 00:39:50

Java and the only one in the world. And I hope to hear from

Nori Jabba: 00:39:54

some of your listeners. Amazing thank you so much. Thank you

Nori Jabba: 00:39:59

ever to to stay connected and be remembered