Sell Without Selling Your Soul | RR226

Janice Porter: 00:00:01

Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

Janice Porter: 00:00:03

of relationships rule. I'm very excited to have as a guest

Janice Porter: 00:00:08

today, Liz Wendling. Liz I met. Wow, I think through some

Janice Porter: 00:00:14

connection book we were in, or

Liz Wendling: 00:00:16

was it a book Summit? It was the summit Mary.

Liz Wendling: 00:00:19

Yeah, that's

Janice Porter: 00:00:20

right. Yes. And I make it a point of finding all

Janice Porter: 00:00:23

those keen people, key people that were part of the event or

Janice Porter: 00:00:27

the summit or the book or whatever, and connecting with

Janice Porter: 00:00:29

them. And when I came across the list, I found a goldmine. I was

Janice Porter: 00:00:33

so excited to meet Liz, and so glad that you're here. Liz,

Janice Porter: 00:00:37

welcome to the show.

Liz Wendling: 00:00:38

Thank you, Janice. Let's do it. Yes, absolutely.

Janice Porter: 00:00:42

So Liz, I just want to tell my audience a

Janice Porter: 00:00:45

little bit, because this is where we're going to dig right

Janice Porter: 00:00:47

in. Liz is a nationally recognized speaker, a sales

Janice Porter: 00:00:50

consultant and author of six books. Her two most recent are

Janice Porter: 00:00:55

the heart of authentic selling, and sell without selling your

Janice Porter: 00:00:59

soul. That one is specifically for women in business. And we'll

Janice Porter: 00:01:03

get into that in a little bit. Liz is driven by the mantra,

Janice Porter: 00:01:06

it's not what you sell. It's how you sell that matters. And I

Janice Porter: 00:01:11

love that because here we all are women, man doesn't matter.

Janice Porter: 00:01:16

We're entrepreneurs or business owners were even in a career

Janice Porter: 00:01:19

sales, you know it for corporations. Doesn't matter

Janice Porter: 00:01:23

what we do we have to sell. But that seems to be the most hated

Janice Porter: 00:01:27

thing that people want, you know, have to do. So sorry about

Janice Porter: 00:01:31

that. So tell me, Liz, how do you turn people around? Why is

Janice Porter: 00:01:35

that the most hated thing? What is it?

Liz Wendling: 00:01:38

Well, it's always because someone has a negative

Liz Wendling: 00:01:42

mindset around that no different than someone that says diets

Liz Wendling: 00:01:46

don't work, love, relationships don't work, all men suck all

Liz Wendling: 00:01:50

women suck. It's a mindset. And I most of the time, people will

Liz Wendling: 00:01:54

say to me, I love what I do. But I hate to sell, I love my work,

Liz Wendling: 00:01:57

but I hate to sell. And every time I hear someone say I love

Liz Wendling: 00:02:02

what I do, but I hate to sell I have them say I love what I do,

Liz Wendling: 00:02:05

but I hate to make money. I love what I do, but I hate money. I

Liz Wendling: 00:02:08

love working with clients, but I just hate money. And and it's

Liz Wendling: 00:02:13

not about going out there and selling people something they

Liz Wendling: 00:02:16

don't need your service or products. Product is an

Liz Wendling: 00:02:20

exchange, you're exchanging your expertise for money. That's how

Liz Wendling: 00:02:26

an orthopedic surgeon gets gets paid, right? And there is. So

Liz Wendling: 00:02:30

there's a point where women especially have to stop hiding

Liz Wendling: 00:02:35

behind the fact that they hate to do something they don't know

Liz Wendling: 00:02:38

how to do. And most of the time, they hate it because of what

Liz Wendling: 00:02:41

they think they have to do to get someone to buy from them. So

Liz Wendling: 00:02:45

they think they've got to push and be aggressive and make

Liz Wendling: 00:02:49

people do things they don't want to do when in fact that's not

Liz Wendling: 00:02:52

selling at all that's being a jerk. And so, when ever I hear

Liz Wendling: 00:02:57

women say I don't want to be salesy. I don't want to be self

Liz Wendling: 00:03:00

serving. And I don't want to be pushy, Janice. I'm hoping we

Liz Wendling: 00:03:03

dive into this today because every time a woman says I don't

Liz Wendling: 00:03:06

want to be self serving pushy, aggressive, they're actually

Liz Wendling: 00:03:10

showing up that way. They actually sound self serving

Liz Wendling: 00:03:14

aggressive salesy and pushy because of the language choices,

Liz Wendling: 00:03:19

they're making. The words they're putting in an email, the

Liz Wendling: 00:03:22

messages they're leaving in a voicemail actually makes them

Liz Wendling: 00:03:26

sound as salesy as it gets. So a lot of people will be surprised

Liz Wendling: 00:03:30

with some of the words and language language that people

Liz Wendling: 00:03:33

use that make them sound like an old school salesperson, the very

Liz Wendling: 00:03:37

thing they want to avoid is what they sound like,

Janice Porter: 00:03:39

sound like, wow, you know, I'm going to age

Janice Porter: 00:03:42

myself. But back, back in the day, I used to teach customer

Janice Porter: 00:03:46

service. And I taught a lot through the I was a trainer at

Janice Porter: 00:03:51

the local telephone company. And we'd sell big phone systems to

Janice Porter: 00:03:56

organizations and we would go out and train them on how to use

Janice Porter: 00:04:01

them. And then the soft skills. I take the receptionist and the

Janice Porter: 00:04:05

first point of contact in the different departments and I do

Janice Porter: 00:04:09

phone, conversation, you know, phone courtesy with them. And

Janice Porter: 00:04:14

back in those days, I used to hear all the time when I

Janice Porter: 00:04:17

listened to those people answered the phone, they would

Janice Porter: 00:04:20

say things like, and they were always women, nine, nine out of

Janice Porter: 00:04:23

10 times say things like I'm sorry, he's not here at the

Janice Porter: 00:04:27

moment. He's you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I missed you

Janice Porter: 00:04:33

or I sorry, I missed the call or they're always apologizing. Yes.

Janice Porter: 00:04:37

They were always making excuses. And that was I realized and

Janice Porter: 00:04:41

showed those people what they were doing is it was more about

Janice Porter: 00:04:44

again, their belief or lack of belief in their in themselves in

Janice Porter: 00:04:47

the power that they had to take action. He's out for lunch right

Janice Porter: 00:04:52

now. May I take a message not sorry, he's out for lunch. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:04:57

can you help me that you know, right, right. Yeah. Have lots of

Janice Porter: 00:05:00

things. It's the same principle I feel. And think about with the

Janice Porter: 00:05:06

sales piece of languaging around sales, and not apologizing,

Janice Porter: 00:05:11

which women do all the time.

Liz Wendling: 00:05:13

He makes men do it too. And it isn't only I'm so

Liz Wendling: 00:05:17

sorry. Think of it this way. I know you're busy. So I won't

Liz Wendling: 00:05:21

take up too much of your time. I know you have a lot on your

Liz Wendling: 00:05:23

plate. So I'll get to the point. I know you have way more going

Liz Wendling: 00:05:27

on than I do. I'm just sitting here trying to make a living and

Liz Wendling: 00:05:31

you're busier than me. It isn't. Yes, it's about the words, but

Liz Wendling: 00:05:35

it's the energy and how it lands on someone. So when you say to

Liz Wendling: 00:05:40

someone, I know you're busy, I won't take up too much of your

Liz Wendling: 00:05:43

time. That isn't for the other person. That is typically for

Liz Wendling: 00:05:47

the person who's using it. You feel like you have to apologize

Liz Wendling: 00:05:52

for doing your job. You feel like you have to say I'm so

Liz Wendling: 00:05:55

sorry, I know you're busy. I'm not because of how you feel

Liz Wendling: 00:05:59

inside you.

Janice Porter: 00:06:00

That's your, your mindset and your lack of

Janice Porter: 00:06:03

confidence. Right?

Liz Wendling: 00:06:04

So when someone says I don't want to sound

Liz Wendling: 00:06:06

salesy or self serving, and they say something crappy like that,

Liz Wendling: 00:06:10

I know you're busy. And I won't take up too much of your time.

Liz Wendling: 00:06:13

The person who you just said that to is thinking, all right,

Liz Wendling: 00:06:16

well, you just took up too much of my time with that stupid

Liz Wendling: 00:06:20

saying stop and get to the point. So all this time when

Liz Wendling: 00:06:24

someone says I don't want to do this, what they don't realize is

Liz Wendling: 00:06:28

that it's like playing golf and you say I don't want to go in

Liz Wendling: 00:06:31

the sand trap. Well, your brain only hears go in the sand trap.

Liz Wendling: 00:06:35

So when you say I don't want to sound salesy, and you show up

Liz Wendling: 00:06:38

salesy anyway. So you're not doing yourself any favors

Liz Wendling: 00:06:42

declaring what you don't want to be, let's talk about who you do

Liz Wendling: 00:06:45

want to be and how you do want to show up.

Janice Porter: 00:06:48

Okay, so can you give me a perfect example of

Janice Porter: 00:06:50

turning that around and showing up the way you in today's world

Janice Porter: 00:06:55

the way you would do it?

Liz Wendling: 00:06:57

Well, I would first say Stop apologizing, stop

Liz Wendling: 00:07:00

minimizing yourself, stop putting yourself in a less than

Liz Wendling: 00:07:03

position by apologizing for you being a strong business person,

Liz Wendling: 00:07:07

stop making you look like you're less than everyone else, by

Liz Wendling: 00:07:11

showing up with the energy of I'm less than you, I'm just

Liz Wendling: 00:07:15

trying to get your attention. My time, your time is more valuable

Liz Wendling: 00:07:19

than mine. So I tell people leave it out. Why do you have to

Liz Wendling: 00:07:25

say I know you're busy, I won't take up your time are you I'm so

Liz Wendling: 00:07:28

sorry to bother you, sorry, to be a pest. We'll take that

Liz Wendling: 00:07:32

language out. It doesn't belong in that conversation and step

Liz Wendling: 00:07:36

into the power that you own versus giving away your power in

Liz Wendling: 00:07:39

the first sentence of a phone call. So it doesn't belong

Liz Wendling: 00:07:43

there. Get to the meat of the message. So I am, if you said

Liz Wendling: 00:07:47

something like, I know you're busy. So I won't take up too

Liz Wendling: 00:07:50

much of your time. What if in your head, you said it didn't

Liz Wendling: 00:07:53

come out of your mouth? What would be the next sentence? You

Liz Wendling: 00:07:57

start with the very next sentence. All right. So if you

Liz Wendling: 00:08:00

don't, if you want to get to the point, sorry, you're busy, I

Liz Wendling: 00:08:03

know you're busy. I'll get to the point, well then get the

Liz Wendling: 00:08:05

hair. So the whole idea is then get into the meat of your

Liz Wendling: 00:08:09

message. I can't tell someone what to say. Because I don't

Liz Wendling: 00:08:12

know what they're calling about. But when you call and say,

Liz Wendling: 00:08:15

Janice, I'm glad I caught you. Or oh, Janice, I'm so glad

Liz Wendling: 00:08:18

you're I got you live reason I'm calling is yes. Very right. I

Liz Wendling: 00:08:22

mean, take the not control. You don't want to be controlling,

Liz Wendling: 00:08:27

but you're taking charge of what you're doing. People are busy,

Liz Wendling: 00:08:31

they don't have five seconds to waste on lame language that puts

Liz Wendling: 00:08:35

you in a bad spot. Okay, add up and own it.

Janice Porter: 00:08:39

I think it's would you agree that it's that

Janice Porter: 00:08:41

it's fine to say hey, I'm glad you're there. Thanks for taking

Janice Porter: 00:08:44

my call, or thanks for picking up the phone. I always like that

Janice Porter: 00:08:47

today because nobody does. And those that do. I appreciate

Janice Porter: 00:08:50

that. That's so lovely. You know, I want to see now I could

Janice Porter: 00:08:55

stop myself right away, right? Or I'm calling about or want to

Janice Porter: 00:08:59

share with you or something like that. Just read into it that I

Janice Porter: 00:09:02

would assume would be okay. But and

Liz Wendling: 00:09:05

not to use three or four of them. Oh, I'm so glad

Liz Wendling: 00:09:07

you picked up the phone. It's so nice to talk to you. I'm so

Liz Wendling: 00:09:10

like, okay, just pick one and get to the point.

Janice Porter: 00:09:12

Got it. Okay, so language is really important.

Janice Porter: 00:09:16

And there are, I've heard you, in some of your videos talk

Janice Porter: 00:09:21

about that. So many of those trite phrases that we use, and

Janice Porter: 00:09:24

that are outdated. And I know one of your phrases is to say

Janice Porter: 00:09:29

when you change your language, you change your results. And

Janice Porter: 00:09:32

that's a good thing to keep in my head. So. So let's talk about

Janice Porter: 00:09:39

follow up because now follow up is the same thing. It's whether

Janice Porter: 00:09:43

you write the email or whether you pick up the phone and leave

Janice Porter: 00:09:45

a voice message, or however you do it. Do you have a rule of

Janice Porter: 00:09:51

thumb around how to do that effectively?

Liz Wendling: 00:09:57

Well, I tell people that follow up is not

Liz Wendling: 00:10:00

activity, it's a process you have to look at follow up as a

Liz Wendling: 00:10:06

process in your business. It isn't one activity. Oh, let me

Liz Wendling: 00:10:10

follow up with Jan. No, it's not that. So what I first of all, I

Liz Wendling: 00:10:15

call it the F word because it is you might know that's done you

Liz Wendling: 00:10:19

want to type out I'm just following up treat it as if you

Liz Wendling: 00:10:21

use the real F word. But it isn't only follow up. It's

Liz Wendling: 00:10:26

following up touching base reaching out checking in. We're

Liz Wendling: 00:10:30

talking about 40 years ago, we've been using that same

Liz Wendling: 00:10:34

phrase. And sometimes will say Just following up just touching

Liz Wendling: 00:10:38

base just wanted to try you one more time. Thought I would

Liz Wendling: 00:10:41

follow up but I haven't heard from you. I sent you 17 other

Liz Wendling: 00:10:45

messages. So I always tell people, first of all, strip out

Liz Wendling: 00:10:49

those words strip out following up touching base reaching out

Liz Wendling: 00:10:52

and checking and they don't belong in our conversations.

Liz Wendling: 00:10:55

First of all, you're already doing the act of follow up. Why

Liz Wendling: 00:10:59

do you have to announce I'm going to take an inhale Now

Liz Wendling: 00:11:03

Janet, at Janice. And now I'm going to exhale, Janice, what

Liz Wendling: 00:11:08

you don't have to announce what you're doing. You're breathing?

Liz Wendling: 00:11:10

Just do it. You're following up, just do it. So it's stripping

Liz Wendling: 00:11:14

that out? And understanding that follow up is a continuation of

Liz Wendling: 00:11:20

what you've already started. Right? Isn't that what the what

Liz Wendling: 00:11:22

it really is. And if people are not getting back to you, it has

Liz Wendling: 00:11:27

nothing to do with your message you can send 15 Follow up

Liz Wendling: 00:11:31

messages. If people are avoiding you. What that tells me is that

Liz Wendling: 00:11:34

you missed the mark in your sales conversation, it means

Liz Wendling: 00:11:37

someone doesn't feel connected and confident to get back to

Liz Wendling: 00:11:40

you. You've you did something in the conversation that caused

Liz Wendling: 00:11:44

them to completely disconnect from you and avoid all your

Liz Wendling: 00:11:47

communication. So good. Yeah, I thought

Janice Porter: 00:11:51

I did have a thought because I'm in a process

Janice Porter: 00:11:53

right now with somebody who I had a an initial sales call, I

Janice Porter: 00:12:00

guess. Okay. Yeah. And they they asked lots of questions. They

Janice Porter: 00:12:06

were looking at, you know, different ways that they could

Janice Porter: 00:12:09

do this for LinkedIn training. And it's a strange time right

Janice Porter: 00:12:14

now with July, August, they're in a, I don't want to say who's

Janice Porter: 00:12:18

busy what business it was. I was just looking at on their

Janice Porter: 00:12:23

LinkedIn profile their their posts, and they've been busy and

Janice Porter: 00:12:26

whatever, because I haven't heard back from her. Okay. And I

Janice Porter: 00:12:29

thought maybe I'll just send a quick message by LinkedIn. And I

Janice Porter: 00:12:34

don't even know what now what I said. But I would be curious to

Janice Porter: 00:12:38

know, let's do it. Because maybe I was thinking this, okay. Let's

Janice Porter: 00:12:48

see if I did. I said, I hope you had a great July 4 celebration,

Janice Porter: 00:12:53

and that you've survived the crazy weather happening in the

Janice Porter: 00:12:55

Northeast. And here it is, I thought I'd check back with you

Janice Porter: 00:13:00

to see if you're still thinking of doing some LinkedIn training

Janice Porter: 00:13:03

or if you have any questions for me.

Liz Wendling: 00:13:05

Okay, that was in. Okay. All right. All right, a

Liz Wendling: 00:13:08

couple of let's just be transparent, because if I'm

Liz Wendling: 00:13:11

honest with you, someone will learn from it that's full of a

Liz Wendling: 00:13:15

couple of fails inside of that. So okay, I am in unless you

Liz Wendling: 00:13:21

really know someone, first of all, if you and I know each

Liz Wendling: 00:13:25

other now, a couple of weeks. Yeah. I still wouldn't even put

Liz Wendling: 00:13:29

in an email. Hey, Janice. I hope you had a great Fourth of July

Liz Wendling: 00:13:32

weekend. I wouldn't start there. I would end there. That's so

Liz Wendling: 00:13:36

funny,

Janice Porter: 00:13:37

cuz I had it the other way around. And then I

Janice Porter: 00:13:39

changed it today.

Liz Wendling: 00:13:41

Because when you say to someone, hey, I hope

Liz Wendling: 00:13:43

you're doing well. Hope. I hope you had a great weekend. I hope

Liz Wendling: 00:13:46

all as well, I hope this email finds you. Well. The recipient

Liz Wendling: 00:13:49

is thinking No, you freaking don't. You are. Do I really

Liz Wendling: 00:13:54

think you sat there and thought, Oh, I hope Liz had a really

Liz Wendling: 00:13:57

wonderful weekend. No, nobody believes that anymore. So I'm

Liz Wendling: 00:14:01

not suggesting you not be nice, Janice. I'm suggesting there's

Liz Wendling: 00:14:06

there's a way to re engineer an email these days. So I would put

Liz Wendling: 00:14:10

that at the end PS I hope you survived. I saw the crazy

Liz Wendling: 00:14:13

weather in the northeast, something like that. But But

Liz Wendling: 00:14:17

here's where i where i i try to dig in first is how did you end

Liz Wendling: 00:14:22

that meeting with this particular person? How what was

Liz Wendling: 00:14:25

the last communication you had with? Let's call her Mary Smith.

Liz Wendling: 00:14:29

Would you say to Mary at the end of that,

Janice Porter: 00:14:32

I was weird because usually what I do is I

Janice Porter: 00:14:36

try to book a follow up call with them. Because I felt like

Janice Porter: 00:14:40

she was definitely in control. And she was saying I'm going to

Janice Porter: 00:14:43

review all of this over the next while I do have a project and

Janice Porter: 00:14:47

doing she said but I'm going to review it and I will get back to

Janice Porter: 00:14:51

you. You know, the kiss of death. I'll get back to you but

Janice Porter: 00:14:54

that but I didn't think it was over. Okay. And so that's how it

Janice Porter: 00:14:59

ended.

Liz Wendling: 00:15:00

How do you typically end up? Do you

Liz Wendling: 00:15:02

typically try to get a meeting booked?

Janice Porter: 00:15:05

Yeah, I typically will say, I don't know what,

Janice Porter: 00:15:08

what, why I didn't do that, in this particular instance. She

Janice Porter: 00:15:14

wasn't a typical type of client for me. And so there could have

Janice Porter: 00:15:18

been something there from my side, internally. But, um, but I

Janice Porter: 00:15:24

normally will say something like, you know, absolutely,

Janice Porter: 00:15:27

would it be okay, if we set a time on our calendar, we get so

Janice Porter: 00:15:30

busy, and I'll just, we'll just do a quick follow up call either

Janice Porter: 00:15:33

way, doesn't matter, like something to take the pressure

Janice Porter: 00:15:36

off, but to book the call,

Liz Wendling: 00:15:38

okay. But all the language you just used when you

Liz Wendling: 00:15:41

when you listen to this recording everything you said,

Liz Wendling: 00:15:43

you gave away your power? Would it be okay? Could we get

Liz Wendling: 00:15:46

something on there just to check in just to make sure you stay

Janice Porter: 00:15:50

connected clients.

Liz Wendling: 00:15:54

So this is the kind of stuff Janice and I

Liz Wendling: 00:15:56

appreciate you being a model and showing that I know you and I

Liz Wendling: 00:16:00

know you're a kind lady, and I know you're only trying to keep

Liz Wendling: 00:16:03

that momentum going. But here's where that language, we take all

Liz Wendling: 00:16:08

the air out of the tires, and then we think the car is going

Liz Wendling: 00:16:11

to go somewhere. Okay, frame it for me. So it sounded like when

Liz Wendling: 00:16:16

you were describing this person, she was asking all of the

Liz Wendling: 00:16:19

questions versus you. Okay, so let, she might have just been

Liz Wendling: 00:16:24

one of those people that had no interest in doing business with

Liz Wendling: 00:16:27

you. Someone who's interested answers questions, because

Liz Wendling: 00:16:30

you're the driver, the you're the person.

Janice Porter: 00:16:33

He did ask what? Oh, okay. All right. It was a

Janice Porter: 00:16:36

back and forth. And she had her social media guy on the call.

Liz Wendling: 00:16:41

All right, yeah. So then I personally would have

Liz Wendling: 00:16:44

handled it a little differently. And it's what I teach my clients

Liz Wendling: 00:16:47

is at the end of the meeting, asking to book a next meeting is

Liz Wendling: 00:16:51

a little, there's a little pressure in that. That's making

Liz Wendling: 00:16:56

me behave on your timeline. Versus you behaving on mine, the

Liz Wendling: 00:17:01

buyer? Yeah. So when so? To me, it sounds that languaging is a

Liz Wendling: 00:17:06

little outdated. Everybody will say, Oh, you got to book that

Liz Wendling: 00:17:09

next meeting. Don't leave one call without the next one. All

Liz Wendling: 00:17:12

right, if it was still 9995, I'd say all right, that's perfect.

Liz Wendling: 00:17:17

We're not anymore. Okay. So it is. So remember, follow up is a

Liz Wendling: 00:17:22

process. It's not an event, you treat it like an event. So I

Liz Wendling: 00:17:27

would say, if let's I'm going to channel that woman that you are

Liz Wendling: 00:17:31

on the phone with, I might say, Janice, I appreciate your

Liz Wendling: 00:17:34

honesty, and you're going to review everything. And it's you

Liz Wendling: 00:17:38

know, it's nice to know you're looking at some options, and I

Liz Wendling: 00:17:41

appreciate your communication. How would you like us to stay in

Liz Wendling: 00:17:46

communication now? This is you on the phone or a zoom call with

Liz Wendling: 00:17:50

someone collaborating around follow up, not you saying, hey,

Liz Wendling: 00:17:55

I want to get you on my calendar, so I can try to sell

Liz Wendling: 00:17:57

you a little more. And I know that's not what you said. But

Liz Wendling: 00:18:01

that's what they heard.

Janice Porter: 00:18:02

Yes, yes. I love that. Okay, Mike has to move

Janice Porter: 00:18:06

forward.

Liz Wendling: 00:18:06

So if I said to you, hey, Janice, I know you're

Liz Wendling: 00:18:09

gonna get crazy. I'm gonna get crazy. We're in that July August

Liz Wendling: 00:18:12

timeframe where people are on vacation. What what do you want

Liz Wendling: 00:18:15

us to do next? What's the next step? Let me tell you versus you

Liz Wendling: 00:18:21

telling me, the buyer is I don't want you to completely give up

Liz Wendling: 00:18:25

the control to the buyer. But I want you to be collaborative. I

Liz Wendling: 00:18:29

want everyone to think that this is a we situation, not me trying

Liz Wendling: 00:18:34

to tell you what, here's what I want. I want to talk. Yeah,

Liz Wendling: 00:18:38

that's awesome. And you will, and when the language does get

Liz Wendling: 00:18:41

changed. So when I say change your language, change your

Liz Wendling: 00:18:43

results. It is amazing when I get in there, and I work with

Liz Wendling: 00:18:47

someone and we shift all the language and then they'll say to

Liz Wendling: 00:18:50

me, holy crap, plus, I sent one, one message and that person got

Liz Wendling: 00:18:55

right back to me. Or it only took two tries to get ahold of

Liz Wendling: 00:18:59

this person. Or I've emailed this person 10 times and they're

Liz Wendling: 00:19:03

not responding. And then I give them some language to kind of

Liz Wendling: 00:19:06

kick up the dust again. And they're like, Oh, my God, that

Liz Wendling: 00:19:09

person got right back to me. But you sound like everyone else

Liz Wendling: 00:19:13

inside their inbox. Everyone else sounds a lot like the

Liz Wendling: 00:19:17

message you left. Everyone says, just checking in following up

Liz Wendling: 00:19:20

touching base. You're ready to get started. I know we talked

Liz Wendling: 00:19:22

about that. It isn't enough to get people to keep the momentum

Liz Wendling: 00:19:27

going.

Janice Porter: 00:19:28

Can I can I save her? Can I salvage this? If she

Janice Porter: 00:19:31

doesn't answer me?

Liz Wendling: 00:19:33

Yeah, you might be able to go back and say to her,

Liz Wendling: 00:19:36

said there was no problem in that email, meaning you didn't

Liz Wendling: 00:19:39

say to her, you and I talked about the potential of XY and Z.

Liz Wendling: 00:19:44

You mentioned you were struggling with this or wanted

Liz Wendling: 00:19:46

some help around that. I don't know if that's still a priority

Liz Wendling: 00:19:50

or still on your radar. But it lets either to keep the momentum

Liz Wendling: 00:19:54

going or figure out what the next step looks like if there is

Liz Wendling: 00:19:58

a next step. So there's a lot more, there's just more ways to

Liz Wendling: 00:20:03

engage someone than your basic boring, bland, vanilla generic

Liz Wendling: 00:20:08

and outdated, same old, lame old language of just following up.

Janice Porter: 00:20:13

Perfect. I fell right into your trap. And it's

Janice Porter: 00:20:15

perfect.

Liz Wendling: 00:20:17

Thank you. Thank you for showing everybody that

Liz Wendling: 00:20:20

this is not intuitive. This is not this is why people call me

Liz Wendling: 00:20:25

and say I need a makeover. I need your sales clinic, I need

Liz Wendling: 00:20:28

to be in your messaging makeover. And once you do it and

Liz Wendling: 00:20:32

fix it, you never need me again. That's the best part. You

Janice Porter: 00:20:37

gonna say? So tell me tell me how you feel

Janice Porter: 00:20:40

about Do you ever do LinkedIn messaging for working messages

Janice Porter: 00:20:46

on LinkedIn? That kind of thing? Like a

Liz Wendling: 00:20:48

prospecting message? Yes, absolutely. All

Liz Wendling: 00:20:51

the time? Yes.

Janice Porter: 00:20:52

Okay. So, obviously, none of us want to be

Janice Porter: 00:20:56

pitched. So we don't want the first message to be a pitch,

Janice Porter: 00:20:59

right? And it happens all the time. And it happens all the

Janice Porter: 00:21:02

time, then we've got some people who, okay, it's, it's the the

Janice Porter: 00:21:08

complete opposite, where it's just that that generic, you

Janice Porter: 00:21:12

know, let's book you know, nice to meet you. Let's book a call

Janice Porter: 00:21:16

and see how we can help each other on LinkedIn or whatever.

Janice Porter: 00:21:19

It was expanding my LinkedIn thing, and you know, you came up

Janice Porter: 00:21:24

and and then I, so do you ever do something like this, and I

Janice Porter: 00:21:30

haven't done this, but I want to just test the waters with this.

Janice Porter: 00:21:33

So where you've done a search, you found a group of people that

Janice Porter: 00:21:38

you would like to try and connect with in terms of their,

Janice Porter: 00:21:41

their job function, or their, their business or their

Janice Porter: 00:21:45

location, whatever the filters are, that you want, and you

Janice Porter: 00:21:48

found a group of people. Now you start on your outreach, I always

Janice Porter: 00:21:52

check. Because I teach LinkedIn, I taught I teach people to look

Janice Porter: 00:21:56

at that person's profile to see number one, if they're active.

Janice Porter: 00:21:59

Number two, if it feels like it might be a fit, and you want to

Janice Porter: 00:22:03

pursue it. So now the first message goes out. So would you

Janice Porter: 00:22:08

ever do something like this? Let's say my, my, my audience

Janice Porter: 00:22:15

are all business consultants. Okay, there. Yeah, so let's say

Janice Porter: 00:22:22

I've created a an ebook around how business consultants can use

Janice Porter: 00:22:29

LinkedIn with my tips or something like that. So my first

Janice Porter: 00:22:33

message now, I would say you have to connect first.

Liz Wendling: 00:22:38

Let's assume you're connected. So

Janice Porter: 00:22:44

in some format, some form of saying, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:22:46

would you be interested in in my top 10 tips for using LinkedIn

Janice Porter: 00:22:52

as a business or growing your business on LinkedIn as a

Janice Porter: 00:22:56

business consultant? If so, just say, yes, I'd be happy to send

Janice Porter: 00:22:59

it to you, something like that. Does that seem pitchy? A little

Janice Porter: 00:23:04

bit

Liz Wendling: 00:23:04

the term would you be interested,

Janice Porter: 00:23:07

you know, like that. Right?

Liz Wendling: 00:23:08

That is that screams. salesy. Yeah. Would you

Liz Wendling: 00:23:12

be interested if I could show you a way to save money on your

Liz Wendling: 00:23:15

car insurance? So without getting into a full blown

Liz Wendling: 00:23:19

training here, that's, that is a way to get in and asking them to

Liz Wendling: 00:23:24

reply back is better than just dropping it in there. And

Janice Porter: 00:23:28

I'm looking for a way to to qualify people, right?

Janice Porter: 00:23:35

They obviously say, yes, they're interested. They're more

Janice Porter: 00:23:39

interested in that, you know, that at least you can send it to

Janice Porter: 00:23:42

them. And, but I'm just wondering if that approach is

Janice Porter: 00:23:46

still salesy. So instead of would you be interested? How

Janice Porter: 00:23:49

would you frame it?

Liz Wendling: 00:23:50

Well, it would be a whole rewrite of that email,

Liz Wendling: 00:23:53

because, first of all, why them? What's inside these 10 tips that

Liz Wendling: 00:23:59

I couldn't go google or Go to chat? GPT what is it in your

Liz Wendling: 00:24:03

stuff that's unique or different or insightful? So there's,

Liz Wendling: 00:24:08

there's has to be more meat on the bones is the only way that I

Liz Wendling: 00:24:11

can describe it.

Janice Porter: 00:24:12

And yet the reason I'm asking this is

Janice Porter: 00:24:17

because I was listening to someone talking about this the

Janice Porter: 00:24:19

other day on a podcast. One of the things that this person was

Janice Porter: 00:24:23

saying is that he had a really good first email that he had

Janice Porter: 00:24:29

used for yours and similar to that, but longer so it had a bit

Janice Porter: 00:24:33

more meat in it. But it wasn't getting a response today and

Janice Porter: 00:24:37

that's why he changed it to one sentence type of deal. It is

Janice Porter: 00:24:41

working. So that kind of brings me to the question of like,

Janice Porter: 00:24:45

what's different today with with the audience then it was you

Janice Porter: 00:24:50

know, because you keep saying those are outdated, these things

Janice Porter: 00:24:52

are outdated. So what, how, what's different today about the

Janice Porter: 00:24:56

audience and more sophisticated or they

Liz Wendling: 00:24:58

are within their She's so much more skeptical.

Liz Wendling: 00:25:03

their inboxes are bloated, and they're filled with pitches.

Liz Wendling: 00:25:07

They're filled with messages that sound like, Hey, I hope you

Liz Wendling: 00:25:11

had a good weekend. Yeah, it looks like you're a busy

Liz Wendling: 00:25:13

consultant or Oh, you like the color blue soda? Why isn't that

Liz Wendling: 00:25:17

crazy. And then they pitch someone. So there if your

Liz Wendling: 00:25:21

message isn't written, here's the key, written to me, not at

Liz Wendling: 00:25:27

me write a message to me, not at me make it feel like Janice sat

Liz Wendling: 00:25:33

down and wrote it to me, a message that feels like it's

Liz Wendling: 00:25:38

landing in my inbox with intention, not generic, see,

Liz Wendling: 00:25:43

generic just doesn't do it any more. Because of how bloated my

Liz Wendling: 00:25:47

inbox, I could spot an email, that is a sales pitch. Sometimes

Liz Wendling: 00:25:51

even before I log on to LinkedIn, I could feel it coming

Liz Wendling: 00:25:54

through my computer. And too many people don't want to put

Liz Wendling: 00:25:58

the time in and the energy and the thought in and what word

Liz Wendling: 00:26:01

choices feel good to me. Who am I as a business owner? And how

Liz Wendling: 00:26:06

do I want to show up? What do I want to convey? How what

Liz Wendling: 00:26:10

intention do I want to start with, so that my very first

Liz Wendling: 00:26:14

interaction with someone actually starts to build

Liz Wendling: 00:26:17

momentum. So, and I hear this a lot, Oh, I heard on a podcast or

Liz Wendling: 00:26:22

one trainer told me this, or oh, I downloaded a template and it

Liz Wendling: 00:26:27

worked. Somebody made $8 million dollars in five minutes on this

Liz Wendling: 00:26:30

thing. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it works.

Liz Wendling: 00:26:35

It just means it's popular. Okay, just because everybody's

Liz Wendling: 00:26:38

doing it doesn't mean it works. And just because it worked for

Liz Wendling: 00:26:41

one person might not work for you. So this is why people are

Liz Wendling: 00:26:45

spinning their wheels. This is why so many people are hitting

Liz Wendling: 00:26:49

brick walls, whether it's on LinkedIn, or email or any part

Liz Wendling: 00:26:52

of their business, because they're looking for a tactic.

Liz Wendling: 00:26:55

They're looking for that pie in the sky, that one little nugget,

Liz Wendling: 00:26:59

that hack that they could use, versus stepping back far enough

Liz Wendling: 00:27:02

and saying, wait a second, if I'm going to do the work, I'm

Liz Wendling: 00:27:06

going to type out 456 emails to someone. Why don't I first

Liz Wendling: 00:27:11

figure out what I want to convey? What's the intention?

Liz Wendling: 00:27:14

How do I want to keep the momentum going with them? How do

Liz Wendling: 00:27:17

I even send an email that? And I would never suggest anybody say

Liz Wendling: 00:27:23

this, but just to get the meat here is? How do I stop

Liz Wendling: 00:27:26

connecting with someone? If there's nothing there? How do I

Liz Wendling: 00:27:29

let them know that I'm done? I'm pausing our outreach? How do you

Liz Wendling: 00:27:33

talk to someone the way they like to be talked to, versus

Liz Wendling: 00:27:37

sounding like, I'm not trying to sell you anything, when every

Liz Wendling: 00:27:40

word you use makes it sounds like you are. So the

Janice Porter: 00:27:45

in order to be authentic. And to be real, I

Janice Porter: 00:27:49

think involves really two sides to that coin. One is that you

Janice Porter: 00:27:55

the person writing it sending the message has to come from the

Janice Porter: 00:27:58

heart, they have to be real. The only way I find that I can be

Janice Porter: 00:28:03

real with someone I don't know, is by paying attention to like

Janice Porter: 00:28:07

what's on their profile or, or what I've learned about that

Janice Porter: 00:28:10

person before I reach out so that if I can include something

Janice Porter: 00:28:17

in my message that shows that I paid attention. Would that be

Janice Porter: 00:28:21

like 10 times better? Or is it still not still?

Liz Wendling: 00:28:25

Make Janice Think about how many people say, Oh, I

Liz Wendling: 00:28:27

popped on your LinkedIn profile? It looks like again, you were

Liz Wendling: 00:28:31

you written two books, or oh, it looks like we went on the scene

Liz Wendling: 00:28:34

on knowledge. Yeah, okay. That isn't enough anymore. In fact, I

Liz Wendling: 00:28:39

would rather someone leave that out, then use it. Because it

Liz Wendling: 00:28:43

brings me back from eight years ago, it brings me back to the

Liz Wendling: 00:28:47

LinkedIn training that says, find something on their profile,

Liz Wendling: 00:28:51

and mention it. Like that's going to open me up and fillet

Liz Wendling: 00:28:55

me like a fish. And now I'm going to be the favorite person,

Liz Wendling: 00:28:59

your favorite person in the world. It's not enough people,

Liz Wendling: 00:29:02

our whole art. They're on guard. So when you say something like,

Liz Wendling: 00:29:05

oh, I What a great article you wrote last week. All right.

Liz Wendling: 00:29:10

Okay, but that doesn't make me want to know you and if any more

Liz Wendling: 00:29:13

than I do. So

Janice Porter: 00:29:15

this really because there's people that will

Janice Porter: 00:29:17

respond and say, basically, they'll respond and say, so I'm

Janice Porter: 00:29:25

very busy. Basically, what? I can help you with that, right?

Janice Porter: 00:29:29

And so

Liz Wendling: 00:29:30

those aren't my people. Not only is it not your

Liz Wendling: 00:29:33

people, it tells you you missed the target. Yeah, target

Liz Wendling: 00:29:37

completely. So I appreciate people who do the work, who are

Liz Wendling: 00:29:42

getting on LinkedIn, who are sending outreach who are doing

Liz Wendling: 00:29:45

podcasts who are doing so much of the good meaty stuff in their

Liz Wendling: 00:29:50

business. But I feel bad when they don't take the time to

Liz Wendling: 00:29:55

close the loop. So they're doing all of the good stuff and they

Liz Wendling: 00:29:59

forget that say Sales is a process sales is a conversation.

Liz Wendling: 00:30:03

Sales is a service piece, following up as a is not an

Liz Wendling: 00:30:07

event, it's a process. And how do you button up all your hard

Liz Wendling: 00:30:11

work in the beginning to ensure that somebody even wants to

Liz Wendling: 00:30:14

communicate with you, and then maybe eventually hop on the

Liz Wendling: 00:30:17

phone with you, and then maybe eventually say, hey, Janice,

Liz Wendling: 00:30:20

tell me about your LinkedIn program. And so it's it's

Liz Wendling: 00:30:24

building that momentum. And I know people will say it's all

Liz Wendling: 00:30:29

about relationships, it's all about know, like, and trust, and

Liz Wendling: 00:30:32

I call BS on both. Here's why. It I know a lot of people, I

Liz Wendling: 00:30:36

like a lot of people, and I trust a lot of people. But that

Liz Wendling: 00:30:39

doesn't mean you get a penny of my money. Know, like, and trust

Liz Wendling: 00:30:43

only gets you a ticket to the game. Relevance. And value is

Liz Wendling: 00:30:49

where I'm going to start communicating with you if what

Liz Wendling: 00:30:52

you tell me is relevant to my world, and really will help me

Liz Wendling: 00:30:56

in my business, and there's value in that. I'll give you a

Liz Wendling: 00:30:59

sliver of my time. Other than that, you're getting deleted.

Liz Wendling: 00:31:02

That's it. So it's taking the time, all that time, all that

Liz Wendling: 00:31:06

energy and money, people invest on programs that do fill up a

Liz Wendling: 00:31:11

pipeline, but then will not invest in the piece that I

Liz Wendling: 00:31:14

teach, which is the right language and the right

Liz Wendling: 00:31:17

messaging. So it feels like you are in the in the process with

Liz Wendling: 00:31:21

them not trying to sell them something. And it's hard to

Liz Wendling: 00:31:26

watch Janice it really is it's, it's like you watch people in

Liz Wendling: 00:31:30

the gym, they just ran 20 miles on the treadmill. But then you

Liz Wendling: 00:31:33

go see them and they're at the drive thru at McDonald's eating

Liz Wendling: 00:31:35

for Big Macs, you know, that it's something is wrong with

Liz Wendling: 00:31:39

their workout. They'll say I'm not, I'm not losing any weight.

Liz Wendling: 00:31:43

I don't understand. Well, I just saw you at the drive thru. Same

Liz Wendling: 00:31:46

thing with my clients. They'll say, Listen, I'm doing this, I'm

Liz Wendling: 00:31:49

doing that I have all this in place. And then I asked them my

Liz Wendling: 00:31:52

top 10 favorite questions, and then we figure out oh, you're

Liz Wendling: 00:31:55

going to the drive thru at McDonald's now again. So then,

Liz Wendling: 00:32:00

and only then are they willing to close the loop, finish that

Liz Wendling: 00:32:04

last portion, so that everything they do has has value and

Liz Wendling: 00:32:09

meaning and starts to make money, move the momentum?

Janice Porter: 00:32:12

So are you then saying though, that it is about

Janice Porter: 00:32:16

building relationships first or not? No, you're saying not see,

Janice Porter: 00:32:23

relationships? You're challenging everything I am,

Liz Wendling: 00:32:26

I am counter to everything. Because for 50

Liz Wendling: 00:32:29

years, we heard it's all about relationships. Everything's

Liz Wendling: 00:32:33

about a relationship.

Janice Porter: 00:32:35

It was more it was more transactional back

Janice Porter: 00:32:38

then.

Liz Wendling: 00:32:38

Right? But when I hear it's all about

Liz Wendling: 00:32:41

relationships, don't sell, just serve. All those little mantras

Liz Wendling: 00:32:46

mean nothing anymore. People are busy. They they, I don't need a

Liz Wendling: 00:32:51

relationship with everybody I do business with, right. I mean, I

Liz Wendling: 00:32:54

have my kitchen and bathrooms done right? totally remodeled. I

Liz Wendling: 00:32:58

don't need a relationship with the guy who did it all I don't,

Liz Wendling: 00:33:01

I just need you to show me that you're the right person for the

Liz Wendling: 00:33:04

job. And that when someone asked me who did my kitchen and

Liz Wendling: 00:33:07

bathrooms, your name comes up. I haven't talked to the guy in

Liz Wendling: 00:33:10

three years. But we have a working relationship, but not

Liz Wendling: 00:33:15

yet we would people think is Oh, you have to build relationships.

Liz Wendling: 00:33:19

I'm not saying they're not important. Where the

Liz Wendling: 00:33:21

relationship becomes important is when you agree to do business

Liz Wendling: 00:33:25

together. And you treat each other like the human beings we

Liz Wendling: 00:33:29

have the capacity to do. And that's where the relationship

Liz Wendling: 00:33:33

gets solidified. I might know you like and trust you to get

Liz Wendling: 00:33:35

you to talk to you. But I'm going to need some relevance and

Liz Wendling: 00:33:38

some value. That's where the relationship really gets

Liz Wendling: 00:33:41

enhanced. So the pieces on the chessboard have moved. So

Liz Wendling: 00:33:46

anytime you want to throw out a mantra that says it's all about

Liz Wendling: 00:33:49

this, or oh sales are about listening, you know what course

Liz Wendling: 00:33:53

it is? But is that all? It is? No, it's the whole package. So

Liz Wendling: 00:33:57

it's having me the ability to step far enough back and say,

Liz Wendling: 00:34:01

Where do I plug the holes in a new world? That's so different?

Liz Wendling: 00:34:06

And it's plugging those holes. And I bet you have a decade if

Liz Wendling: 00:34:09

you plug the holes, you probably have a decade of runway to

Liz Wendling: 00:34:12

continue to use those. That process.

Janice Porter: 00:34:15

Hmm, interesting. Okay, so the two most recent

Janice Porter: 00:34:19

books that you've written, which I mentioned earlier, the heart

Janice Porter: 00:34:21

of authentic selling, sell without selling your soul, which

Janice Porter: 00:34:25

one's going to help me the most?

Liz Wendling: 00:34:27

Well, I because you're a woman, I would say go

Liz Wendling: 00:34:30

to sell without selling your soul because it does go into a

Liz Wendling: 00:34:34

lot of what we talked about today. And even the heart of

Liz Wendling: 00:34:37

authentic selling, it really comes down to being a good human

Liz Wendling: 00:34:42

being is really what it comes down to. Now in both of those

Liz Wendling: 00:34:45

books, there's examples there's ways to build value. There's

Liz Wendling: 00:34:49

ways to show people that I'm not here just for the sale, and

Liz Wendling: 00:34:53

actually mean it and it's felt it's not just you saying I'm

Liz Wendling: 00:34:59

authentic. It's being it's so much that somebody else is the

Liz Wendling: 00:35:02

one who says you're so authentic. Yes, it's having

Liz Wendling: 00:35:06

being such a good human being and so good at asking questions

Liz Wendling: 00:35:10

and helping people see the value in your offering. That's when

Liz Wendling: 00:35:14

they say, Janice, how do we get started? Not. Thank you for your

Liz Wendling: 00:35:18

thank you for your information. I'll get back to you.

Janice Porter: 00:35:21

Yes, I know there recently somebody said to me on

Janice Porter: 00:35:25

a first call. Wow, you've given me such value already. Yes. You

Janice Porter: 00:35:30

know, is now the opening, you know, and I loved that. And so

Janice Porter: 00:35:35

it's paying attention to those kinds of things that work, I

Janice Porter: 00:35:38

think, yes. Well, I have to say, Liz, you, you challenged me in

Janice Porter: 00:35:43

more ways than one today, I'm glad that I was able to be the

Janice Porter: 00:35:47

guinea pig in a way because I'm always open to learning. And I

Janice Porter: 00:35:51

know, for me, I didn't come up through sales, even though I

Janice Porter: 00:35:56

know we're always selling. I was a teacher. And so I was a school

Janice Porter: 00:36:02

teacher than I was a corporate trainer. I never had to sell

Janice Porter: 00:36:05

anything. All I had to do was go out and show them how to use it.

Janice Porter: 00:36:08

Right. Right. So I everything I've learned is self taught and

Janice Porter: 00:36:13

and there's always room for improvement. So thank you, thank

Janice Porter: 00:36:16

you for sharing your viewpoint and your expertise with us.

Liz Wendling: 00:36:23

You're welcome. And thanks for being coachable

Liz Wendling: 00:36:25

live for everybody to say. Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:36:28

absolutely. And I would like to just end with with

Janice Porter: 00:36:31

one question for you to just leave for my audience is, what

Janice Porter: 00:36:36

would your top tip for sales be for being the best salesperson

Janice Porter: 00:36:43

you can be? What would be the best thing that you could leave

Janice Porter: 00:36:46

with my audience?

Liz Wendling: 00:36:47

Oh, gosh, I guess I'm gonna stay up there with the

Liz Wendling: 00:36:51

topic that we're on is watch your language. Watch what comes

Liz Wendling: 00:36:54

out of your mouth. Watch what you tell yourself, and then what

Liz Wendling: 00:36:58

leaves your lips. If you say to yourself, oh, I don't want to be

Liz Wendling: 00:37:01

salesy, but then you look at your language and you are

Liz Wendling: 00:37:03

salesy. That's a sign right there that you're not congruent

Liz Wendling: 00:37:08

in your language and who you're being and how you're showing up.

Liz Wendling: 00:37:11

And if you don't think your potential clients notice, you're

Liz Wendling: 00:37:14

lying to yourself, they feel it. And when they don't respond to

Liz Wendling: 00:37:18

you, they don't call you back. They don't hire you. They keep

Liz Wendling: 00:37:20

saying, Oh, not yet. It's a sign that something isn't lined up

Liz Wendling: 00:37:24

inter externally and internally. And once you get those, like a

Liz Wendling: 00:37:29

piece of velcro stuck together your internal and external way

Liz Wendling: 00:37:33

of being, it's going to be a little challenging in a world

Liz Wendling: 00:37:37

that's getting more and more challenging to sell every single

Liz Wendling: 00:37:39

day.

Janice Porter: 00:37:41

Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you, Janice.

Janice Porter: 00:37:43

And thank you to my audience as usual for being here and

Janice Porter: 00:37:47

listening. If you liked what you heard, please leave a review and

Janice Porter: 00:37:51

let us know. And remember to stay connected and be remembered