Taking Care of Business with the Enneagram | RR253

Janice Porter: 00:00:01

Hi, hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter: 00:00:03

episode of relationships rule. I'm Janice Porter and my guest

Janice Porter: 00:00:07

this week is Carl had been straight, who comes to us, I

Janice Porter: 00:00:10

think you're in California right now.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:00:12

I am in California. I'm in Southern

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:00:14

California right now. Yes, thank you.

Janice Porter: 00:00:16

We've been traveling. I know. And we'll

Janice Porter: 00:00:18

talk about that in a second. But first of all, welcome to the

Janice Porter: 00:00:21

show. And for having me. You're very welcome. I, I just want to

Janice Porter: 00:00:27

tell you a little bit very little bit, I want you to tell

Janice Porter: 00:00:29

the rest about you that you are a certified executive coach,

Janice Porter: 00:00:34

leadership and organization, development consultant, author

Janice Porter: 00:00:38

and international speaker. And you're the author of this very,

Janice Porter: 00:00:45

very academic book called taking care the how and why taking care

Janice Porter: 00:00:51

of business with the Enneagram. Carl, it's all about the

Janice Porter: 00:00:55

Enneagram. And has

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:00:57

been I would say it's it's not just academic,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:00:59

it's applying the academics to practicality to business

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:01:02

practicalities and organization development intervention. So

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:01:05

it's the actual application, you're, I

Janice Porter: 00:01:07

apologize, no worries. So that it's all about

Janice Porter: 00:01:10

how to use this and apply it in business. But for me, when I

Janice Porter: 00:01:14

first looked at it, I went, Oh, my God, this is like a text.

Janice Porter: 00:01:16

There

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:01:16

are academics in it. You're absolutely right.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:01:18

I mean, my my PhD thesis is in there. So you're absolutely

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:01:21

right.

Janice Porter: 00:01:22

And I'm glad, I'm glad that you corrected me

Janice Porter: 00:01:24

because Absolutely, it's about how to use this tool in

Janice Porter: 00:01:27

business. And I think that in itself, just taking it from,

Janice Porter: 00:01:31

from the model that it is and then applying it is is even more

Janice Porter: 00:01:36

to me academic. But I know what you mean, like, this is the

Janice Porter: 00:01:40

other piece that I love. This is a book that Carl wrote about the

Janice Porter: 00:01:43

Enneagram. And it's a children's book called Nina. And the

Janice Porter: 00:01:46

really, really tough decision. This one, of course, I loved

Janice Porter: 00:01:49

because I love children's books, and I was a teacher, an

Janice Porter: 00:01:52

elementary teacher. So that's why I love this. But also, it's,

Janice Porter: 00:01:56

it's a great way to teach children. You know, how to get

Janice Porter: 00:02:03

along with other people really is different. And the thing

Janice Porter: 00:02:07

about this book, how many languages is it in?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:11

So it's an English and it's in Spanish.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:13

It's also been translated into Greek and we're getting a

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:15

publisher for it in Greek, and it's also being translated into

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:19

French. Isn't

Janice Porter: 00:02:20

that wonderful? So that's, that's so cool. And

Janice Porter: 00:02:23

that does it have I know it has some like questions and

Janice Porter: 00:02:27

discussion questions in the back of this book. Do you use Do you

Janice Porter: 00:02:31

have like? Is it something you would do, like, do a course on a

Janice Porter: 00:02:36

Pro D Day professional day for teachers to show them how to do

Janice Porter: 00:02:39

this book? That kind of thing?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:40

Absolutely. And it of course, it's intended

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:43

for children. But at some point, some of the children may be too

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:47

young to read it. So the adults who read it to them will also

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:02:51

get a lot out of it. Of course, of course.

Janice Porter: 00:02:53

So all right. Tell me first of all, how did

Janice Porter: 00:02:58

this come about? For you? How did you get interested in this

Janice Porter: 00:03:02

model in this piece? And when like a long time

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:05

ago, or it was a long time ago? I didn't know

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:08

anything about the Enneagram? I think it's right now it's it's

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:11

very popular, or it's gaining a lot of popularity, and people

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:13

really do know about it, or are finding out about it in a

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:17

variety of different ways. Whether it's through pop

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:20

culture, and quickly go answer this one question will tell you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:23

what your Enneagram type is, or actually studying it for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:27

different reasons for spiritual development or personal

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:30

development or leadership development for maybe they're

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:33

they have a psychologist that they're working with, and the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:35

psychologist has brought it up to help them with it. But the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:39

the way that I found out about it was when I was in graduate

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:42

school, going for my PhD in organizational psychology. And

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:46

this was back then it was called the California School of

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:48

Professional Psychology in San Francisco. And what I didn't

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:53

know anything about it, I was Myers Briggs, I was disc I know

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:56

and all about those things I was using when I thought they were

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:03:58

the bomb. It was awesome. It was great. And then I went to this

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:02

one class, and it wasn't even an entire semester of it. It was

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:05

just one class out of that that semester for that one, one class

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:10

that I was taking one, one second. And the professor that I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:15

had for the class, somehow fortunately, knew Helen Palmer

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:21

and invited Helen Palmer, to come to our class to teach us

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:24

about the Enneagram introduced the Enneagram to us, and I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:27

didn't know who Helen Palmer was. And Helen Palmer is huge.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:31

Helen Palmer is one of this probably the reason why the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:34

Enneagram is in in is popular in culture right now because up

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:42

until she wrote a book about the Enneagram. Back in the I would

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:47

say 1970s. The Enneagram was not taught to the public. It was a

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:04:54

very esoteric, very very secretive type of program. Um,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:00

that was taught for Spiritual Development actually, yeah,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:02

yeah. Okay. Yeah. So she wrote it down, she popularized it. She

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:08

said, You know, the world started learning about it, and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:10

then other people started applying it. But anyway, going

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:12

back to the class, she came, and she taught us about the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:15

Enneagram. And my mind was absolutely blown, I would just

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:19

expanded, I didn't even think about the differences between

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:23

behaviors that the other instruments were measuring, like

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:26

the Myers Briggs, a disc, and Hogan and all those, versus the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:30

actual motivation that was driving those behaviors. And I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:34

kept thinking about all the different applications that I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:37

could use this in human resources, because I was in

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:39

human resources. And thinking, wow, we're not even tapping into

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:44

a third of, of what we should be tapping into, we are not

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:47

engaging and motivating employees appropriately,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:50

according to what they want. We're just focusing on just a

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:52

couple different archetypes, hear a couple different energies

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:05:56

here. And we're missing the boat on all these others. So I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:00

immediately decided that I was going to dive deeper into

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:03

researching it, and did my dissertation on it. And it was

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:07

how to help organizations attract, retain and motivate

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:10

employees. So

Janice Porter: 00:06:12

you discovered if I get this correctly, that from

Janice Porter: 00:06:15

your experience with the other tools that are used in business

Janice Porter: 00:06:18

like disc and, and the personality type things, and so

Janice Porter: 00:06:22

on, that this was much deeper, and there is much to it, and

Janice Porter: 00:06:26

would be a much better overall tool to use in business there

Janice Porter: 00:06:31

are so you that was your premise, you want to find out

Janice Porter: 00:06:33

right? And

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:34

absolutely. And it really goes along to what

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:36

you talk about on your podcast, but the relationships about the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:39

connections, right? So if we just see someone's behavior, we

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:42

have no idea why they're behaving that way we and we make

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:45

assumptions, we make assumptions based on our interpretations or

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:48

our limited worldview, because we have a certain worldview that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:52

we're looking at the world through. And if we actually get

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:57

to know them, and find out what's important to them, what

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:06:59

their values are, what their drivers are, what motivates

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:02

them, what's important to them what their hot buttons are,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:04

right, then we'll understand what's important to them. And we

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:07

will have better relationships, deeper relationships with them.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll limit conflict, because we will be

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:18

interpreting things in a in a in a bad way. We're looking at, you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:23

know, why they're actually doing it and will actually be able to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:25

better communicate and influence them looking at giving them

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:29

exactly what they need, as opposed to extraneous stuff that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:07:31

they may not be interested in. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:07:34

so just to simplify it for me and my

Janice Porter: 00:07:37

audience. So in the children's book, you show that this, Nina

Janice Porter: 00:07:43

goes to see all of these different friends of hers, and

Janice Porter: 00:07:46

each one of them has a different number. So she did exactly

Janice Porter: 00:07:49

right. And those are the numbers on the the Enneagram. And each

Janice Porter: 00:07:54

one of those is a different person. Would you say?

Janice Porter: 00:07:59

personality type? No.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:00

It's called a Personality Typing system just

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:02

to simplify it. And it's much more than that. Right. Okay.

Janice Porter: 00:08:05

So I was looking, though, in your book, The other

Janice Porter: 00:08:09

book, is there a quick test? I can I could have taken which I

Janice Porter: 00:08:12

should have asked you beforehand to see which number I was. And I

Janice Porter: 00:08:17

know we have different pieces of different ones in us, but we

Janice Porter: 00:08:20

must have.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:23

Or, yeah, I mean, one or what? What did you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:26

score type? I mean, type

Janice Porter: 00:08:27

four? Yeah, of course. Exactly. So is there a

Janice Porter: 00:08:31

quick test online that people can take? There

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:33

are so many of them are much more valid than

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:37

others? Take? Yeah, I'm happy to I'll send you a link.

Janice Porter: 00:08:41

I use the Can you tell what somebody is? Okay. So

Janice Porter: 00:08:45

what do you think?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:46

I don't know. I couldn't so we're not. We

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:49

should never be looking to guess or identify someone's type

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:54

without them telling us because we don't know what's going on.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:56

We're not mind reader's. We don't know what's going on for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:08:58

them. We have no idea what they're thinking what they're

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:01

feeling. And what they're

Janice Porter: 00:09:03

Yeah, I broke, wrote them all down from the

Janice Porter: 00:09:05

kids book. Yeah. Okay. So that I could get a sense of them. And I

Janice Porter: 00:09:09

still I didn't know I'm not sure. I there's a couple that

Janice Porter: 00:09:13

feel like me. Yeah. But it definitely, you know, I think,

Janice Porter: 00:09:17

do

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:18

you want are you are you willing to share

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:19

which ones they are?

Janice Porter: 00:09:20

Yeah, well, I think Sure, of course. So. Do

Janice Porter: 00:09:23

you want to do you want to go through what the nine are? Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:09:26

absolutely.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:27

Yeah. So in the children's books, since

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:29

we're focusing on that the types are one through nine. And the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:33

names are also indicative of the type. So type one is one right

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:37

to two is chewing Nene as a type nine, so she's Nino's nine.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:43

Eight is Kate. So the type one which is the type we all have,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:48

and as you said, we have all nine of these energies within us

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:51

to certain extents and we can access all nine of these

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:54

energies within us. It just takes us to focus on which one

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:09:58

is appropriate for that. moment for that situation. So if we

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:02

look at, I'm going to simplify it even further, I'm gonna look

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:05

at into groups of three. And maybe the types that you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:08

selected are fall into one, each of these groups of three. So we

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:13

have the heart types, we have the head types, or thinking

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:17

types. And we have the body or action types. So if we start,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:22

let's start with the heart types. So the twos, the threes,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:25

and the fours are the heart types. So the type two energy is

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:30

all about intuitively reaching out and knowing what other

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:35

people need. So always having these feelers out, that are

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:39

looking and understanding what other people's needs are, and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:43

meeting those needs or wanting to help people meet those needs,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:46

even if the person hasn't asked for the help themselves. Yes.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:50

Okay. So that's where the twos can get into trouble with that,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:53

yes, it's that intuition of knowing what other people need

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:55

and suppressing their own needs in the moment, right, they're

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:57

always looking at other people's needs, and not necessarily their

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:10:59

own. So that's the path the superpower, the twos have that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:03

intuition of, of meeting other people's needs, and wanting to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:08

be liked and appreciated for that. So the type three heart

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:14

energy or feeling energy, is seeing what other people's needs

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:19

are, but also maybe pushing their own needs down in service

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:25

of achieving goals. They're always about goal, attainment,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:29

goal achievement, meeting the objectives. So that's the type

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:33

three, that's the so the two is the Giver, or helper, the three

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:35

is more about performing and achieving. And then type four

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:39

heart energy is taking all of those energies in all those

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:43

feelings and very empathically feeling what other people are

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:47

feeling, feeling, what they're feeling themselves, and really

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:49

being in those feelings, and wanting to be appreciated for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:53

being special, unique and different. So those are the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:11:56

heart's types. And each of us whether it's our primary or not,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:00

are going to really be attracted to one of those three, because

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:05

that's how we everyone accesses their heart. Everyone has

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:08

feelings, everyone feels so how do you basically feel you feel

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:13

through one of those, those three energies or lenses, so

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:15

it's up to you to decide which one of those that is, and I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:18

don't know, if the some of the that you picked, if one of them

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:20

is in the two, three or four range? One of them is, yeah, so

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:24

probably, that's probably your feeling style. Yeah. So from the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:28

feeling center, we then go to the thinking center, the head

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:31

center, and those are the fives, the sixes and the sevens. So

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:35

think of them as thinking styles. So the five is all about

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:40

objectivity. The sixth is about worst case, scenario planning.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:44

And the seven is all about positive outcomes and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:47

opportunities. So the fives energy is really all about

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:52

collecting all this random data that's out there and making it

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:12:56

make sense grading models to make it make sense, so that they

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:00

can predict what's possibly going to be happening in the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:03

future, and they can be prepared for it and not look foolish.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:05

That's what the five is really all about. Fantastic at creating

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:09

synthesizing this information, making it make sense. The six is

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:13

great at planning, because they're always looking at worst

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:16

case scenario situations, because they want to feel safe,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:18

comfortable and secure. So they are looking for the safety of a

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:23

tribe. They're people, they are looking at, not necessarily to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:28

throw a monkey wrench into things, but to prepare for the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:32

worst case in case it does happen. And then they know what

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:34

to do. So they can be safe, comfortable, secure, and still

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:36

achieve the goal. And they the Warriors. They do worry, but

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:40

other types can worry as well. Okay. Or, and other types can

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:44

worry as well. And the seven is the optimist, right? So it's all

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:50

about opportunities, and adventures and experiences, and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:56

just really taking advantage of all the different options that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:13:59

are out there brainstorming. So those are all the head styles

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:04

that think the thinking styles, right? And each of us is going

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:08

to have one of these as our preferred mode of thinking. Not

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:11

that we can't think through the other two styles as well. But

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:13

those are secondary, or they take more focus for us to think

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:16

that way. So you probably I don't know if one of the top

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:19

that you came up with isn't one of those categories. In that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:22

thinking style. Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:14:24

I get more confused as we go on here. But

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:27

oh, no, it's meant to be

Janice Porter: 00:14:29

because I know that that some of what I some of

Janice Porter: 00:14:34

how I operate is logical and let's get the facts and then

Janice Porter: 00:14:39

let's organize sort of the analyst type. But that's not my

Janice Porter: 00:14:43

primary. I don't think I think I'm much more about people and

Janice Porter: 00:14:48

making friends making other people feel comfortable. And but

Janice Porter: 00:14:52

I'm also about loyalty. So yeah, yeah. So

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:57

so those are not mutually exclusive, and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:14:59

correct. Oh, you do have because there is it's called your

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:03

triadic style or try fix or try type. So you will have a top

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:08

energy in each of these centers and one of those will be your

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:12

primary. Okay? Okay, if you're not identifying that the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:15

thinking style is your primary focus, it may be because your

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:20

heart, your heart center, you lead with your heart. So you,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:24

you will have one of those heart styles as your primary, but you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:27

still have a thinking style. Okay. And you still have an

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:30

action style. Yeah, so

Janice Porter: 00:15:32

that's the third one is the action style,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:34

this action or body or gut? Yes. So there are

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:37

eights, nines, and ones. So are eight. So if you think about it,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:41

so you have the feeling, you have the thinking, and then you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:43

have to do something with it like you felt. You've thought,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:47

Now what do I do with it? So then you take action. So the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:49

eights are all about taking action immediately leading

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:52

executing are the boss protectors, generals. Yeah, they

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:15:56

they they're about control, power, authority, justice, truth

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:00

they want to there's truth seekers, they want to know what

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:02

the truth is. They don't care what the truth is, they just

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:04

want to know what the truth is. They don't sugarcoat it for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:06

them. Yeah, just give them what it is. And they will deal with

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:10

it. They are great with conflict, they see conflict and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:13

debate as a way to get to truth. They don't necessarily like

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:17

conflict, but they see it as a tool to get there. And they're

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:21

the ones that are most comfortable with conflict,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:23

because all the other styles are not necessarily looking to have

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:26

conflict or embrace conflict. And the eights again, don't love

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:29

it. But they see it as a way to get to truth, which is what

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:31

they're seeking. Ultimately, the nines don't like conflict at

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:35

all. They're the peacemakers. They're the peacekeepers,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:37

they're like Don't rock the boat, let's just not, you know,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:40

let's just all get along. And they're great at looking at the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:44

entire system, they're looking at every single little bit of

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:47

every little option and component, and seeing the value

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:51

and positivity that it brings, and the value that it all brings

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:55

together to the system. Everything comes together and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:16:57

works. And the type one is looking at things as well,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:01

what's the right thing to do in this situation? Maybe it's

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:04

according to their values, their morals or ethics, but it's

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:07

always about doing the right thing. What's the right thing to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:09

do, and having the sense of perfectionism we I need to do it

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:13

perfectly.

Janice Porter: 00:17:14

So So tell me what, what type this question or

Janice Porter: 00:17:20

statement brings up? Because right away when you started, and

Janice Porter: 00:17:24

you said, well, let's do it into three, three sections, which I

Janice Porter: 00:17:27

love that you did that. But right away, I was annoyed. Why

Janice Porter: 00:17:31

isn't it 1234567? Why?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:37

So okay, so there were a couple of answers

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:40

for that. Sure. So some types are predisposed to be focused

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:47

on, I needed to be in a certain way I need to be in order, I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:50

need speed following certain rules. So the type ones can

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:54

definitely fall into that category. The type fives,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:57

remember, the fives wanted the system to want to be

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:17:59

predictable. So the fives might be a little annoyed at that as

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:01

well. Yes. And if you look at it as a system, and they might say,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:06

oh, yeah, it doesn't matter. It's arbitrary, where you start

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:08

as long as it fits within the system. And there's a reason for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:11

it. And there is a reason for why we why it's not 123 is the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:17

heart styles and 345 as the feelings that as the thinking

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:21

styles. So it so when you actually see the symbol, there

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:26

are lines that connect each point to two other points on the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:31

circle. Okay, and one of those lines is your, you want to call

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:36

it your stretch or your stress line. So where you will go under

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:39

stress or stretch. Yep, exactly. Okay, got it. And the other line

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:44

is your comfort or release line, which is where you will go to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:47

comfort and you'll learn from both of those lines, those are

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:50

the easiest, and most impactful if you want to look at it that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:53

way lines to learn from for your growth and development. Because

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:57

you want to go to the high side, and there are high sides and low

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:18:59

sides for each different energy, right? Yeah, there's the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:03

positive and then there's the creative side and the reactive

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:07

negative side on the unhealthy side. So you always want to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:11

strive to go for the healthy and creative.

Janice Porter: 00:19:14

And so that's why the one never sits in the right

Janice Porter: 00:19:18

place. Is that why? Because

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:19

yeah. Oh, it's in the right place for this

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:21

system.

Janice Porter: 00:19:23

All right. Yes. See, I guess there's some

Janice Porter: 00:19:25

perfectionist in me as well. I thought it was interesting that

Janice Porter: 00:19:30

the the, I think it's type seven is one of it's the adventure and

Janice Porter: 00:19:39

the cure. Yeah, it's interesting.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:42

I think you're in the sense of wanting to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:44

experience everything.

Janice Porter: 00:19:46

Okay. Everything food, it's not just food. It's

Janice Porter: 00:19:50

tasty. It's

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:19:50

everything. It's experiences. Yeah. Okay. So

Janice Porter: 00:19:55

really fascinating. And it's funny

Janice Porter: 00:19:57

because I was talking to somebody I think it was someone

Janice Porter: 00:20:01

I interviewed. Yes, the day before yesterday. And she is had

Janice Porter: 00:20:06

the Enneagram was one of her things that she did about you

Janice Porter: 00:20:10

and showed her your book because she hadn't heard of you, but a

Janice Porter: 00:20:14

leadership coach or an executive coach. And yeah, she might be an

Janice Porter: 00:20:18

interesting person for you to talk to actually, she's

Janice Porter: 00:20:21

absolutely brilliant. And she Yeah, I think that's who it was.

Janice Porter: 00:20:27

And I'll double check after our call. But yeah, I'd

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:20:29

love that connection. Yeah.

Janice Porter: 00:20:30

And, and so I can see, whichever, whichever model

Janice Porter: 00:20:39

I've seen in the past, and I've, you know, I've experienced the

Janice Porter: 00:20:44

disc and the other ones, you mentioned, the Myers Briggs,

Janice Porter: 00:20:48

that was long time ago. Oh, yeah, the color ones. And then

Janice Porter: 00:20:51

there was another one that was I forget the name of it. But you

Janice Porter: 00:20:55

know, I wrote down when I was looking that number number

Janice Porter: 00:20:58

seven, I thought of the promoter, I thought of the PERT

Janice Porter: 00:21:02

like, number, whereas number eight are like the, the

Janice Porter: 00:21:08

controller. So there was another one I did somewhere the

Janice Porter: 00:21:10

controller, the promoter, the analyst, and the the blue, which

Janice Porter: 00:21:16

I guess it was the title, that's

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:21:17

disk that is disk. So when there's those four

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:21:19

categories, and they have those names, so the the red is the for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:21:23

the dominant, the D, right? Those are the assertive types.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:21:26

So our threes are sevens, and our eights would fall into that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:21:28

category. Yeah. So so there's

Janice Porter: 00:21:31

a lot of similarity, because of course,

Janice Porter: 00:21:34

you only have certain attributes, right? But for me,

Janice Porter: 00:21:39

any, I don't think I've ever had one stick with me in terms of

Janice Porter: 00:21:45

being able to see that in other people, except maybe it was the

Janice Porter: 00:21:49

disk because that's the one I remember. I remember, I see my,

Janice Porter: 00:21:52

my daughter is such a promoter, she's a salesperson, she's an

Janice Porter: 00:21:56

active person, she's like, let's get this done, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:21:58

thinking about it. And I can see and I'm a dominant person in

Janice Porter: 00:22:02

like, I'm the Bossy one. And you know, I want to get order and

Janice Porter: 00:22:06

organized and get everybody happening. And then my sister is

Janice Porter: 00:22:10

like, wants everyone to wants peace for everybody wants to

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:15

you know, she's the nine energy. Yeah, so

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:18

I

Janice Porter: 00:22:18

can see those things. And this just gives

Janice Porter: 00:22:21

another dimension to everything, right?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:24

It explains the reason behind it, the hind

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:26

end. So what is the reason for the need to be dominant? Or the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:29

behavior of being dominant? Yeah, right, is it the need for

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:33

and by the way, one of the subtypes for the type one can

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:36

also be very dominant. We haven't even discussed subtypes,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:40

that's getting a lot deeper, the different instincts or three

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:44

different instincts, which creates subtypes. And anyway, so

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:47

the, the, you know, what's the reason for the dominance, the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:51

behavior of dominance? Is it the need to control? Or is it the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:22:55

need to be able to be free and have autonomy? And that way,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:01

you're able to control your destiny by doing all these

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:03

different things, to prove yourself? Or is it for meeting

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:07

some certain goal of, you know, proving yourself that I can I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:10

can achieve this goal, this is the goal that I put for myself,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:13

and I'm going to achieve it. Prove yourself to somebody else,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:17

it could also be for the type three as well. Yeah, there's

Janice Porter: 00:23:20

so many different things that that come to mind.

Janice Porter: 00:23:23

Okay, so how do you who in in a business environment is going to

Janice Porter: 00:23:36

use this isn't going to be the HR people? Or, you know, does it

Janice Porter: 00:23:41

have to come from the top down? I'm not even a corporate person.

Janice Porter: 00:23:43

But I'm just curious, you know?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:46

So the answer is everyone, okay? Everyone can

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:50

benefit from it. So ideally, if it becomes part of an

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:55

organization's culture, and the leadership team embraces it, and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:23:58

says, Wow, I can see the value in this and this works with my

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:02

leadership team. And then this is exactly what I've

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:04

experienced, right? I've gone in, I've done it at the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:07

deliberative workshop for the top leadership team. They all

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:11

get it and they say, Wow, I need this for my leadership team and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:14

their leadership teams and for their direct reports and their

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:16

direct reports. And that's how it really takes,

Janice Porter: 00:24:20

it has to start at the top really, generally

Janice Porter: 00:24:22

speaking, it does

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:23

have to start at the top and it can also

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:26

bubble up from the bottom. It could be a grassroots effort. So

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:30

different I've seen it happen where people go from one

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:32

organization to another, it's been Ingram is not in that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:35

organization. They start using with their team, other parts of

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:38

the organization, see this successes that they're having is

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:40

a hold on a second, this is great, let's use it to so then

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:43

it starts bubbling and it goes up. Okay. So it's whatever

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:47

works. The answer is whatever works for the situation, the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:50

culture or the organization. And it really is readiness, the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:55

person's readiness, the leaders readiness, the employees

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:24:57

readiness, the organization's readiness to seems readiness,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:00

just everyone's readiness. How ready are they for?

Janice Porter: 00:25:03

We knew the children's book. What age group

Janice Porter: 00:25:06

did you have in mind?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:09

I think that it would probably apply best.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:11

And again, it depends on the the advanced meant of the children.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:16

Probably starting the earliest if eight. Yeah, so I was gonna

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:20

say, Yeah, eight. Definitely the 10 year olds get it immediately.

Janice Porter: 00:25:24

I would say grade three or four. Yeah,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:26

yeah. So interesting.

Janice Porter: 00:25:29

Yeah. To, to use that in a school. I as I said, I

Janice Porter: 00:25:34

taught school a long time ago. You just came back from a cruise

Janice Porter: 00:25:39

in we got to do a presentation on your cruise. Yes. Of the

Janice Porter: 00:25:45

Enneagram. And that's exciting. So yeah, what 250 People in the

Janice Porter: 00:25:51

US now, they weren't on a on an educational tour, they were on a

Janice Porter: 00:25:58

Yo,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:25:59

they were on a vacation there. All the ports

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:02

that we visited were truly islands with beaches. So people

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:05

were going out there and snorkeling and swimming and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:07

laying on the beach. So this was definitely not part of their

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:10

agenda.

Janice Porter: 00:26:12

250 people showed up. So that's

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:14

pretty nice. Well, it was a captive audience.

Janice Porter: 00:26:17

But But no, but they didn't have to come right?

Janice Porter: 00:26:20

No, they

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:20

didn't. There were plenty of other

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:21

opportunities I was up against. I think there was a poker

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:24

tournament or something going on. There were other things

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:27

going on.

Janice Porter: 00:26:28

So tell me tell me how that of that audience I'm

Janice Porter: 00:26:34

I'm imagining? I don't know that you ask them if they'd heard of

Janice Porter: 00:26:37

it. Yes. Okay. How many

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:40

of you had I was, so throughout the cruise, I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:43

was asking people when I was meeting people, you know, I was

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:45

telling them, I'm going to be doing this on the last day or

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:47

last see day. And you know, come if you're interested, you don't

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:50

have to come. But this what we'll be talking about

Janice Porter: 00:26:52

very few people. You were promoting,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:55

I was promoting, they were promoting

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:26:57

for me. And they did a video that they shot a video and they

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:00

were and I was on the front page of their little daily newspaper

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:03

and everything like that. So it was great. But the thing that I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:08

found out was, and this was mostly Australians, because the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:11

cruise ship left from Sydney. And but it was people from all

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:15

around the world. And the thing that I found out was that most

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:20

people did not know about the Enneagram. Sometimes if they did

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:23

it was because they were clinical psychologists. And so I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:27

didn't know who was going to show up at the workshop at the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:30

one hour seminar. And I asked at the beginning of the seminar,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:36

how many people had heard of the Enneagram were you anything

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:39

about it, and less than a dozen raise their hands.

Janice Porter: 00:27:45

So that was afterwards,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:48

a lot of people came up to me and said

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:49

this was incredible. And it was really opened up their eyes,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:52

they didn't know what to expect it and know anything about it.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:27:54

And it was really very powerful for them and

Janice Porter: 00:27:56

impactful. Now, I think I said to you when I first

Janice Porter: 00:27:59

met you that my recollection of anything that was connected,

Janice Porter: 00:28:04

because I had heard the word I knew what basically it was, it

Janice Porter: 00:28:08

went back to a time when I did a course on the 24 Sacred gifts.

Janice Porter: 00:28:14

And the women that taught me that also had studied the

Janice Porter: 00:28:17

Enneagram. And I felt there was this religious or spiritual

Janice Porter: 00:28:22

connection. Can

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:24

you see? Yes, yes. So the origins of the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:27

Enneagram are ancient and mystic. So the symbol itself is

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:31

a Sufi symbol. And the the actual concept can be traced

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:36

back 1000s of years because if you look at the Odyssey, and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:43

Odysseus, his travels, Homer's Odyssey, it's actually the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:46

Enneagram in order the lands visited or the Enneagram in

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:49

order, yes. And visited. Yes, are the Enneagram in order

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:55

there's a book Michael Goldberg has written a book about this.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:28:58

And he shows how the Odyssey is really the Enneagram, the story

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:02

of the Enneagram all the different lands on the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:04

Enneagram. Russ Hudson does a great trip every I think he does

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:09

it pretty much annually a trip to Egypt to show all the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:12

different symbols and we're in the in the pyramids embedded in

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:15

the pyramids or Enneagram concepts. So it's really

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:18

fascinating to see how old it is. And we'll never know exactly

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:23

what the origins are, but we do see it around the world

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:26

pervasively. So

Janice Porter: 00:29:29

your goal now is as a speaker, right to go and

Janice Porter: 00:29:34

spread the word so to speak.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:36

Yeah, I want to make people's lives easier. I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:39

want to make their relationships easier. I want them to have more

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:42

effective relationships. Do better at work, be better people

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:29:48

be better human beings and just living easier, better life.

Janice Porter: 00:29:52

And and if they study the Enneagram and the the

Janice Porter: 00:29:59

MO motivations behind our actions, we'll learn more about

Janice Porter: 00:30:03

each other, we'll be able to get along better. Absolutely

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:06

think of it as emotional intelligence. Because

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:08

emotional intelligence building, you start with self awareness

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:11

first. So understanding what your own drivers have been in

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:13

will be will continue to be thriving in our lives. Because

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:16

your, your core Enneagram motivation will stay with you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:19

for your entire life. It's just the expansion. It's the and so

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:24

in addition to that, let me see if I can integrate the other

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:27

eight styles and make sure that I'm not only fixated and looking

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:30

at the world without one lens, right and thinking that other

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:33

people are also looking at it that same way. So then when you

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:36

realize that other people don't, then you empathize with their

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:39

perspective

Janice Porter: 00:30:40

and adapt as accordingly, ultimately, is

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:43

the third point adapting and integrating

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:45

it and using it. So bringing it into your own worldview,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:48

expanding your own worldview, to realize that it's not just that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:52

one style or motivation or perspective, it's all of them.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:30:57

That's

Janice Porter: 00:30:57

amazing. And it's actually a great way, a great

Janice Porter: 00:31:00

place to stop, because we've kind of come full circle now.

Janice Porter: 00:31:04

It's right, we understand a little bit more about the

Janice Porter: 00:31:06

Enneagram. I hope my audience does. I know I do. And I want to

Janice Porter: 00:31:10

go and find out a little bit more. And I also see the value

Janice Porter: 00:31:16

in what you're, you're now this is a new, a new journey for you.

Janice Porter: 00:31:21

Right? Because do you were you teaching by the way? Or were you

Janice Porter: 00:31:25

in?

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:26

So I found out about the Enneagram. Back last

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:29

century, if you're looking at buying is probably the when I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:33

started my journey? Yeah, but

Janice Porter: 00:31:35

were you in corporate yourself? I

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:37

was I was in corporate up about two years

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:39

ago. Yeah. But I was still using the Enneagram in my

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:42

organizations in the organization. So

Janice Porter: 00:31:44

now you're going out on your own now you're the

Janice Porter: 00:31:47

author, speaker circuit. So it's exactly you know, on lighten a

Janice Porter: 00:31:51

lot more people's lives and, and businesses about the Enneagram.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:31:58

So it's my hope, that was my dream.

Janice Porter: 00:32:00

I think it's Yeah, I think not a hope more of

Janice Porter: 00:32:03

a dream, I think it'll happen. I think it's interesting that

Janice Porter: 00:32:05

people are so much today in need of the softer side of things.

Janice Porter: 00:32:11

And and, and also, like you said, it's always stays with you

Janice Porter: 00:32:18

the world's changing and is crazy right now. But those kinds

Janice Porter: 00:32:21

of things, we need to understand people and be aware of what's

Janice Porter: 00:32:29

going on for a lot of people,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:30

right? And going back to your audience, the

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:34

value in the Enneagram for your audience is if you're a leader,

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:38

knowing about what your predispositions are finding out

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:42

about your direct reports, your team's ways that what motivates

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:46

them, so you can engage them and motivate them and retain them.

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:49

Right? If you're in sales, or marketing, really knowing I was

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:54

just part of the Samsung just did a launch yesterday for their

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:32:59

new product. And I tuned into it. And I was fascinated to see

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:04

that they touched on every single Enneagram point what

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:06

would be of interest to each of the nine different styles. So

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:10

that so that you wouldn't leave anyone out, they will be very

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:12

inclusive. So it's really about inclusion, right, including all

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:16

diverse perspectives and needs. So if you're a sales and

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:20

marketing perspective, if you make sure that you touch on all

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:22

of those focal areas that each of these nine energies is

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:26

looking for, or their comfort, then you you will know that

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:30

you've addressed the needs of your stakeholders of your

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:33

clients or your potential customers. So it's for HR, same

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:38

thing, how do you work with your leaders and the employees like

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:41

finding out what's important for them, creating systems that will

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:44

really motivate them and engage them. So this is really a system

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:33:47

that can help bring everything together?

Janice Porter: 00:33:51

That's amazing. So I agree. Yeah, no, I think

Janice Porter: 00:33:54

that's great. And I'm really glad that you came to talk to me

Janice Porter: 00:33:57

and my audience about it, because I think they'll spread

Janice Porter: 00:34:01

the word, you know, and we'll get some more people interested

Janice Porter: 00:34:03

in so I will in the shownotes, where can people get these? I'll

Janice Porter: 00:34:07

put it in the show notes on Amazon or

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:08

on Amazon. They're in bookstores. Yeah. So

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:11

absolutely, feel free to review. So I'm on LinkedIn, of course my

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:17

website is perform and function.com. So it's like a

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:21

play on words form and function, but it's perform and function

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:24

and you spell out the end percent side. So it's p e r f o

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:27

r m a n d, fu MC T io n.com. And my LinkedIn is our Carl had been

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:34:34

striped, and Carl's with a que.

Janice Porter: 00:34:36

Got it. And I'll put all that in the show notes.

Janice Porter: 00:34:39

So thank you so much for being here. Thank you for coming today

Janice Porter: 00:34:43

and spending some time with us. And thank you to my audience

Janice Porter: 00:34:46

again for being here. And if you liked what you heard, please let

Janice Porter: 00:34:50

us know and leave a review and share this information. If you

Janice Porter: 00:34:56

think you have some questions and you want to talk to Carl,

Janice Porter: 00:34:59

you'll know where to go Find them and remember to stay

Janice Porter: 00:35:02

connected and be remembered Thank

Karl Hebenstreit: 00:35:05

you Janice thank you everyone