Turning Small Talk into Business Gold | RR319

Janice Porter: 00:00:02

Janice, hello. Hello, and welcome to this

Janice Porter: 00:00:04

week's episode of relationships rule. I'm Janice Porter, your

Janice Porter: 00:00:09

host, and I have a special guest with me again this week, and she

Janice Porter: 00:00:14

is Jen Mueller, and I'm going to say welcome to the show, Jen,

Janice Porter: 00:00:17

before I get into it, thank you. You're very welcome. I'm excited

Janice Porter: 00:00:22

to have you here. Jen is an Emmy Award winning sports

Janice Porter: 00:00:26

broadcaster, communication expert and founder of talk

Janice Porter: 00:00:30

sporty. To me, with over 25 years literally on the sidelines

Janice Porter: 00:00:35

of major sports leagues, including the NFL and the MLB,

Janice Porter: 00:00:39

Jen has mastered the art of building relationships in the

Janice Porter: 00:00:43

most high pressure, fast paced environments. She shares how the

Janice Porter: 00:00:47

technique she's used to establish trust in seconds with

Janice Porter: 00:00:51

world class athletes can be applied to business settings

Janice Porter: 00:00:54

where brief, meaningful interactions often matter most.

Janice Porter: 00:00:58

If you've ever wondered how to make a lasting impression in a

Janice Porter: 00:01:01

short amount of time than this episode is for you. Wow. Okay, a

Janice Porter: 00:01:06

lot to unpack here, because I know you sort of lead a double

Janice Porter: 00:01:10

life in a way, right, I guess. So, yeah, yeah, I never thought

Janice Porter: 00:01:16

about it until the second. But yeah, you're still doing the

Janice Porter: 00:01:18

sports broadcasting, and you are very busy doing presentations

Janice Porter: 00:01:24

and workshops and and conferences with business people

Janice Porter: 00:01:29

to share, to to transition that over to to business. So let me

Janice Porter: 00:01:35

ask you this, because I want to jump right in. So you're known

Janice Porter: 00:01:39

for making fast, meaningful connections. So what's the first

Janice Porter: 00:01:43

thing that you focus on in these interactions?

Jen Mueller: 00:01:47

You focus on conversations that can take

Jen Mueller: 00:01:50

place in seconds, not minutes. So I think a lot of times when

Jen Mueller: 00:01:53

we think about interactions or networking or making an

Jen Mueller: 00:01:57

impression, we're thinking about a conversation or a meeting or a

Jen Mueller: 00:02:01

happy hour or a coffee that you're blocking out several

Jen Mueller: 00:02:05

minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes, even an hour. But if I'm

Jen Mueller: 00:02:10

thinking about TV time, we measure conversations in

Jen Mueller: 00:02:14

seconds, not minutes, literally the shortest amount of time that

Jen Mueller: 00:02:19

you can pencil into a television script is 15 seconds. I can tell

Jen Mueller: 00:02:25

you a story in 15 seconds. It's three sentences, it's not a lot

Jen Mueller: 00:02:29

of detail, but there is an impact that is made in just 15

Jen Mueller: 00:02:33

seconds. So if I am trying to make an impression, I need to

Jen Mueller: 00:02:37

recognize that really all it takes is one word, one exchange,

Jen Mueller: 00:02:43

one smile, one interaction. And if I'm looking at the smallest

Jen Mueller: 00:02:48

measure of success in that moment, I'm looking for the

Jen Mueller: 00:02:51

number of people who say hello, and that is my goal every time I

Jen Mueller: 00:02:56

walk into a locker room or clubhouse, is to get at least

Jen Mueller: 00:03:00

five guys to say hello.

Janice Porter: 00:03:03

Okay, so my my thought process when you were

Janice Porter: 00:03:07

describing that went to and I think I've told you this before,

Janice Porter: 00:03:11

I watch more basketball games than I watch football games, or

Janice Porter: 00:03:15

definitely not baseball. It's not my thing. But anyway, so I

Janice Porter: 00:03:19

think of the sports reporter or interviewer on the on the floor

Janice Porter: 00:03:26

who, after even half time, maybe quarter time, even after the

Janice Porter: 00:03:30

game, has a few seconds with. Now you might clarify this for

Janice Porter: 00:03:36

me. Is it with the person that has been assigned to do that, or

Janice Porter: 00:03:41

the one you ask to come and do that. So

Jen Mueller: 00:03:44

there's probably what you're talking about.

Jen Mueller: 00:03:46

There's probably two different instances, okay, if you're

Jen Mueller: 00:03:49

talking to a coach that has been assigned to you, so for example,

Jen Mueller: 00:03:54

if it's a coach at halftime, the coach knows that they're going

Jen Mueller: 00:03:56

to talk, and that's pretty standard across the board,

Jen Mueller: 00:03:59

right? The head coach of an NFL team knows that they're talking

Jen Mueller: 00:04:03

to the sideline reporter at halftime. Same thing with NBA,

Jen Mueller: 00:04:06

okay, after the game, yeah, the player who gets interviewed that

Jen Mueller: 00:04:10

is not predetermined, that is based on their performance in

Jen Mueller: 00:04:14

the game. So it is my job to walk up to them, or that

Jen Mueller: 00:04:18

sideline reporter's job to walk up and ask for the interview in

Jen Mueller: 00:04:22

that moment. And that's another great example, Janice, of those

Jen Mueller: 00:04:25

conversations that take place in seconds, not minutes. Because in

Jen Mueller: 00:04:29

general, if you were to start a stopwatch, those interviews

Jen Mueller: 00:04:33

probably last no more than 90 seconds, which for me, is three

Jen Mueller: 00:04:37

questions. So you're looking at 90 seconds to two minutes. So I

Jen Mueller: 00:04:41

guess you could measure it in minutes, but you're making a big

Jen Mueller: 00:04:43

impact in a very short amount of time,

Janice Porter: 00:04:46

right? So let's go back to the those 15 seconds,

Janice Porter: 00:04:51

20 seconds type interviews. I know it's based on you have to

Janice Porter: 00:04:59

be watching. Watching the game, you have to be looking at what's

Janice Porter: 00:05:02

going on. So do you have your questions pre determined? Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:05:06

you

Jen Mueller: 00:05:07

do. Okay, I do. I do. So if I'm watching a game,

Jen Mueller: 00:05:10

I'm taking notes the entire way, because you don't know if it was

Jen Mueller: 00:05:14

that play in the first quarter or the ninth inning, that turns

Jen Mueller: 00:05:17

out to be the difference. And there are different points in

Jen Mueller: 00:05:21

the game that I will start to dial in those questions. And

Jen Mueller: 00:05:23

there's a few reasons I do this, and I know that some people

Jen Mueller: 00:05:28

worry about the authenticity in those moments. There is a lot

Jen Mueller: 00:05:33

going on during a post game interview. If I am on a baseball

Jen Mueller: 00:05:36

field, I am probably dodging some sort of Gatorade bath. I've

Jen Mueller: 00:05:40

got teammates that are coming by and high fiving. I've got the

Jen Mueller: 00:05:43

crowd yelling the interview is being played in stadium. So

Jen Mueller: 00:05:47

there are a lot of potential distractions. I want to be

Jen Mueller: 00:05:50

dialed in, because if I'm only going to get three questions, I

Jen Mueller: 00:05:54

need to be really strategic. Those three questions have to

Jen Mueller: 00:05:57

hit the mark, and if we're thinking about building

Jen Mueller: 00:06:00

relationships in those moments. Some of these guys I have known

Jen Mueller: 00:06:04

for the length of their career, some of them have just joined

Jen Mueller: 00:06:09

the team in the last three days. That's what I was going to ask

Jen Mueller: 00:06:12

you. Yeah. The difference Yeah, yep. And so if I am, especially

Jen Mueller: 00:06:16

if I'm working with you for the first time, I want to make the

Jen Mueller: 00:06:19

answer to that question, easy and obvious. I'm not going to

Jen Mueller: 00:06:24

put words into your mouth, but for me, it's the difference in

Jen Mueller: 00:06:27

saying what happened in the seventh inning, which could be

Jen Mueller: 00:06:31

any number of things, two, what gave you the confidence to steal

Jen Mueller: 00:06:36

second with two outs and a lefty in the box there's only rest

Jen Mueller: 00:06:42

one. There's only one, but there's only one answer to that

Jen Mueller: 00:06:45

question. There's only one. I don't know what the answer is,

Jen Mueller: 00:06:48

yeah, but you know what the answer is. And when I do that,

Jen Mueller: 00:06:51

and I make that answer easy and obvious, I just built trust,

Jen Mueller: 00:06:55

because now you trust me to guide you through a conversation

Jen Mueller: 00:06:59

that you have the answers

Janice Porter: 00:07:01

to love it, yeah. Okay, so let's transition that

Janice Porter: 00:07:04

through to a business conversation, all right. So

Janice Porter: 00:07:10

liken it to something that would happen for a salesperson. You

Janice Porter: 00:07:16

work with salespeople, right? I

Jen Mueller: 00:07:18

do work with some salespeople, yeah. So it's the

Jen Mueller: 00:07:21

difference in getting people out of scripted and generic

Jen Mueller: 00:07:26

responses. So here's what happens. We rely on conventional

Jen Mueller: 00:07:29

wisdom and just conversational norms, and we have probably been

Jen Mueller: 00:07:35

taught somewhere along the way that asking open ended questions

Jen Mueller: 00:07:39

is the best way to get a response, because, in theory,

Jen Mueller: 00:07:42

what you are doing is giving the floor to that person to answer

Jen Mueller: 00:07:47

any way they want to answer. Right? What we're actually doing

Jen Mueller: 00:07:51

is creating confusion, and anytime you create confusion,

Jen Mueller: 00:07:55

you are going to default to the safest possible answer, because

Jen Mueller: 00:07:59

nobody wants to look stupid, and nobody wants to give you the

Jen Mueller: 00:08:03

wrong answer. And here's the best way. We don't even have to

Jen Mueller: 00:08:06

get into sales. This is with anybody. Here's the best way I

Jen Mueller: 00:08:10

can articulate that. Okay, if I were to ask you, how are you

Jen Mueller: 00:08:15

What is your response?

Janice Porter: 00:08:18

I hate that question. Just so you know, I

Janice Porter: 00:08:20

hate that question too. Yeah, I say something like, I'm doing

Janice Porter: 00:08:23

okay, right now, thanks. Or, you know, having a great day. I

Janice Porter: 00:08:27

actually try to be honest, but I personally don't pay attention

Janice Porter: 00:08:31

to it.

Jen Mueller: 00:08:32

People don't pay attention. Part of that is

Jen Mueller: 00:08:34

that's a that's a conversational norm, right? That's a script

Jen Mueller: 00:08:38

that we expect. Now I teach ways that we can use that to our

Jen Mueller: 00:08:41

advantage. But when I ask an entire audience with my

Jen Mueller: 00:08:45

corporate clients, yeah, we default to the answer, good,

Jen Mueller: 00:08:49

yeah, we're fine. We're fine. Right now, I want you to think

Jen Mueller: 00:08:52

about what that question actually is. It is the biggest,

Jen Mueller: 00:08:56

broadest, most open ended question you could possibly ask.

Jen Mueller: 00:08:59

The reason we default to good and fine most often is because

Jen Mueller: 00:09:03

we don't know what you're looking for. I don't know if you

Jen Mueller: 00:09:06

want me to talk about the workout that I had this morning,

Jen Mueller: 00:09:09

how my diet's going, how you know the family is, how the job

Jen Mueller: 00:09:12

is, what my stress level is, and unless I'm brave enough like

Jen Mueller: 00:09:16

you, Janice, to actually say I'm having kind of a cloudy, crummy

Jen Mueller: 00:09:20

day over here? Yeah, I don't know what it is that you're

Jen Mueller: 00:09:23

looking for. And so when we're in sales, right, we often don't

Jen Mueller: 00:09:27

know what it is. It's easier to say what we don't like than what

Jen Mueller: 00:09:31

we do want, right? So if we're opening it up by Hey, tell me

Jen Mueller: 00:09:34

what you're looking for today, I don't know. Would it be way

Jen Mueller: 00:09:39

easier if I was able to bring this proposition to the table to

Jen Mueller: 00:09:43

you and say, out of these three things, efficiency, time, length

Jen Mueller: 00:09:50

of time that you want to work with me, and profitability. Rank

Jen Mueller: 00:09:55

those in order of importance for you. Well, now I'm. Starting the

Jen Mueller: 00:10:00

conversation with a very direct, like question, but I make it

Jen Mueller: 00:10:06

much easier to know what that starting point is anytime you

Jen Mueller: 00:10:10

narrow that down and there's only one possible answer, and

Jen Mueller: 00:10:14

it's not about the answer being right or wrong, it's just giving

Jen Mueller: 00:10:17

somebody the confidence and what I consider the safe space to be

Jen Mueller: 00:10:21

like, Oh yeah, I know the answer to that. I can raise my hand to

Jen Mueller: 00:10:25

that. I got that. I know that one. So,

Janice Porter: 00:10:29

okay, what percentage of time would you say

Janice Porter: 00:10:34

that you are talking to people you've never met before, or that

Janice Porter: 00:10:39

like they're brand new? Is it a lot or half?

Jen Mueller: 00:10:42

Well, it depends on which setting. So I get to know

Jen Mueller: 00:10:44

my athletes fairly well. Yeah, it's a great question in that I

Jen Mueller: 00:10:48

talk to a lot of fans, or I will talk to scouts from the other

Jen Mueller: 00:10:52

team, or I am talking to, you know, three year olds to 83 year

Jen Mueller: 00:10:57

olds, depending on where you fall as a fan as a business

Jen Mueller: 00:11:01

owner, and it's a great way to practice all of these skills to

Jen Mueller: 00:11:05

make sure that you make somebody else feel comfortable in a

Jen Mueller: 00:11:07

conversation.

Janice Porter: 00:11:09

Okay, so I'm asking because yesterday I had a

Janice Porter: 00:11:12

conversation. It was like an intro call like you and I had

Janice Porter: 00:11:15

had before this podcast, and someone had pitched this

Janice Porter: 00:11:21

gentleman to me, and I didn't know that much about him, and

Janice Porter: 00:11:25

nor, nor would I at that point, right? I did a little bit of

Janice Porter: 00:11:28

homework, but he wasn't what I expected, okay, in the position

Janice Porter: 00:11:34

that he was in at, which was a high one, and he was very

Janice Porter: 00:11:39

humble, and he was a little bit awkward. And so I thought this

Janice Porter: 00:11:45

is a guy who's been in business for many years and is an owner

Janice Porter: 00:11:48

of a big company. And, you know, I had been sort of flattered

Janice Porter: 00:11:52

that that this had come my way, and I expected something

Janice Porter: 00:11:55

different. So I found myself a little bit I hate this term, but

Janice Porter: 00:12:02

it's, it fits here at sea. Okay, it's, it's a crossword term. I

Janice Porter: 00:12:06

think that's where I get it from. Anyway, yeah, and, and so

Janice Porter: 00:12:11

I was looking for that, something to bond with him. And

Janice Porter: 00:12:16

he started, I said something about the industry he's in which

Janice Porter: 00:12:20

he lit up. And then something came up about he had started his

Janice Porter: 00:12:25

career wanting to be a basketball coach. Well, that was

Janice Porter: 00:12:28

perfect for me, right? Because my husband had been a basketball

Janice Porter: 00:12:31

coach. We basketball family, and he just lit up. And so I found

Janice Porter: 00:12:37

it quickly, and I thought, wow, that's, you know, like, and from

Janice Porter: 00:12:40

then on, we were best friends, you know, in the conversation.

Janice Porter: 00:12:43

So are there like I do it innately, but most people don't

Janice Porter: 00:12:51

so and I'm not saying that I'm brilliant because I did that.

Janice Porter: 00:12:55

I'm just saying that it's, it's a challenge for me, that I like,

Janice Porter: 00:12:59

I like, to be able to find that commonality. So do you have some

Janice Porter: 00:13:03

strategies that you share with people, that you teach people

Janice Porter: 00:13:06

around that? Does that make sense?

Jen Mueller: 00:13:09

Yeah, yes. So the number one thing I would say,

Jen Mueller: 00:13:12

and I think Janice, you are describing also people that I

Jen Mueller: 00:13:17

work with that are high performers, that are ultra

Jen Mueller: 00:13:19

successful, and we have an assumption that when you reach a

Jen Mueller: 00:13:24

certain level, that you want all the credit, all the glory and

Jen Mueller: 00:13:28

all the accolades for everything that you accomplished, and not

Jen Mueller: 00:13:32

all high performers are that way. I'm glad

Janice Porter: 00:13:34

that you're comfortable talking about it,

Janice Porter: 00:13:36

bingo, right?

Jen Mueller: 00:13:38

So a lot of people, when they see athletes who are

Jen Mueller: 00:13:41

awkward on TV. It it's a little bit jarring. Sometimes they get

Jen Mueller: 00:13:46

judgmental. And you got to remember that in every whether

Jen Mueller: 00:13:50

it's locker room, clubhouse, boardroom, business setting,

Jen Mueller: 00:13:53

you've got people who are introverts and extroverts.

Jen Mueller: 00:13:56

You've got people who are comfortable being on the in, you

Jen Mueller: 00:13:59

know, the front leading from the front, you've got people from

Jen Mueller: 00:14:01

behind. So the first thing I would say is adjust your

Jen Mueller: 00:14:04

expectations accordingly. Just recognize the human who's in

Jen Mueller: 00:14:08

front of you, and you can't force them to have a personality

Jen Mueller: 00:14:12

or an answer that they just don't have. That's not a failure

Jen Mueller: 00:14:15

on them or you. This is just the personality that you're working

Jen Mueller: 00:14:19

with. So that's kind of number one, recognize the human that's

Jen Mueller: 00:14:22

standing in front of you. Number two, if I am looking for a

Jen Mueller: 00:14:25

conversation starter, I always start with sports.

Janice Porter: 00:14:28

Always do a lot of the times

Jen Mueller: 00:14:31

I do and I do what most people would tell you not

Jen Mueller: 00:14:35

to do. I ask a yes, no question, yeah, and it will be related to

Jen Mueller: 00:14:40

something. So again, in my line of work, if I'm working with the

Jen Mueller: 00:14:44

mariners every day, or if I'm working with the Seahawks every

Jen Mueller: 00:14:47

day, did you watch the game last night? Right? Are you going to

Jen Mueller: 00:14:50

watch the game on Sunday? Now there's only one answer, and I

Jen Mueller: 00:14:53

really don't care what the answer is. I don't care if it's

Jen Mueller: 00:14:55

yes or no. If the answer is yeah, I watched the game and,

Jen Mueller: 00:14:58

man, that was tough. In the sixth inning, and now I know

Jen Mueller: 00:15:02

that we can talk sports, and I can create an easy follow up

Jen Mueller: 00:15:05

opportunity with you if you say no, now I've got this really

Jen Mueller: 00:15:09

easy opening to say, oh, what were you busy with last night?

Jen Mueller: 00:15:12

Yeah, I was watching the game, but, but what had you busy which

Jen Mueller: 00:15:15

is a way easier way to enter that conversation then. So what

Jen Mueller: 00:15:19

were you doing last night, right? Right comes across with a

Jen Mueller: 00:15:22

very different connotation, and for people who are worried about

Jen Mueller: 00:15:27

using sports as that starting point, because what if they're

Jen Mueller: 00:15:31

not sports fans? Okay, more than half of all Americans, this is

Jen Mueller: 00:15:36

what the Harris Poll study says. More than half of all Americans

Jen Mueller: 00:15:39

identify as sports fans. So that's number one. Number two,

Jen Mueller: 00:15:43

I'm just trying to cut through that awkward 20 question phase,

Jen Mueller: 00:15:47

right? I just need to get you in your comfort zone. And again, if

Jen Mueller: 00:15:52

you don't watch sports, you're going to tell me what you like

Jen Mueller: 00:15:55

to do instead, and you're going to tell me your hobbies, your

Jen Mueller: 00:15:57

kids, your dogs, your travel.

Janice Porter: 00:15:59

I love it, yeah? Because, as I recall now, I did

Janice Porter: 00:16:02

say to this gentleman yesterday, did you watch the game last

Janice Porter: 00:16:05

Yeah? And he went and I made a comment about one of the

Janice Porter: 00:16:08

players, and he went on and on about him. So yeah, it's just

Janice Porter: 00:16:13

when you find it, you find it, right?

Jen Mueller: 00:16:15

Yes. And that right, there is such a nugget

Jen Mueller: 00:16:19

that people miss in that part of small talk. So when you start

Jen Mueller: 00:16:23

talking about a player, or, quite honestly, an outcome, a

Jen Mueller: 00:16:27

coaching decision, all of this is personal branding, and

Jen Mueller: 00:16:30

whether people re realize they're revealing this to you or

Jen Mueller: 00:16:33

not, it is valuable if you are in sales. It is valuable if you

Jen Mueller: 00:16:38

are trying to build a relationship, because a favorite

Jen Mueller: 00:16:40

player is not an accident. You do not randomly choose to have a

Jen Mueller: 00:16:44

favorite player and be engaged in that player's careers and

Jen Mueller: 00:16:48

outcomes. There is something about their style of play, their

Jen Mueller: 00:16:52

personality, their work in the community, that really resonates

Jen Mueller: 00:16:56

with you, and when you start drawing that out. Now, I've got

Jen Mueller: 00:17:00

a slightly bigger picture of who I'm working with and who I'm

Jen Mueller: 00:17:04

trying to build this relationship with. I've actually

Jen Mueller: 00:17:07

done this exercise with NFL rookies in a room to help them

Jen Mueller: 00:17:10

get to know each other. And when you start talking about certain

Jen Mueller: 00:17:14

positions on the field and certain Hall of Fame players,

Jen Mueller: 00:17:18

the characteristics are really obvious, and it's very

Jen Mueller: 00:17:21

interesting, what they find out about each other. When you start

Jen Mueller: 00:17:25

realizing I really appreciate the guy in the trenches who

Jen Mueller: 00:17:28

never gets any credit but just wants to grind every play of

Jen Mueller: 00:17:32

every game, or I like the guy who doesn't mind talking during

Jen Mueller: 00:17:37

the game and who doesn't mind being brash and who doesn't

Jen Mueller: 00:17:39

mind, you know, being the sound bite, I like that confidence as

Jen Mueller: 00:17:43

it comes through, so that what you did in that example is

Jen Mueller: 00:17:48

perfect for developing a relationship, even if people

Jen Mueller: 00:17:51

think you're just talking about sports,

Janice Porter: 00:17:53

right, right? And that's how I saw it too, which

Janice Porter: 00:17:55

is, it's just to get him to open up and and to see his demeanor

Janice Porter: 00:18:00

change, right? And then you, yeah, that's, it's brilliant.

Janice Porter: 00:18:03

Okay, you got me thinking, I got questions here, but I go, I go

Janice Porter: 00:18:09

with the flow here. So something that came to my mind when you

Janice Porter: 00:18:12

were talking also, because you're around the the the male

Janice Porter: 00:18:17

athletes constantly. Do you have any experience with female

Janice Porter: 00:18:22

professional athletes? I do, and I do, how does that differ? Does

Janice Porter: 00:18:26

it differ?

Jen Mueller: 00:18:27

Well, the actual environment differs a little

Jen Mueller: 00:18:32

bit. So the way that it works when you cover professionals. So

Jen Mueller: 00:18:38

we're talking major league baseball, NFL, NBA and NHL,

Jen Mueller: 00:18:43

there is media availability that takes place in a locker room, in

Jen Mueller: 00:18:48

a dressing room, in a clubhouse, when you cover the WNBA, at

Jen Mueller: 00:18:53

least when I did a number of years ago, all of that media

Jen Mueller: 00:18:58

availability takes place on the court or in a press conference

Jen Mueller: 00:19:04

setting, so you were in a room, so you were never actually in

Jen Mueller: 00:19:08

their locker room

Janice Porter: 00:19:10

space. Was that by design?

Jen Mueller: 00:19:12

Well, it is by design, and we can discuss

Jen Mueller: 00:19:16

whether that's a good idea or a bad idea, right? But your locker

Jen Mueller: 00:19:20

room, you're gonna have people that are dressing, undressing,

Jen Mueller: 00:19:23

going to the showers, you know, coming from treatment, going to

Jen Mueller: 00:19:26

hot tubs and cold tubs and things like that. So there are

Jen Mueller: 00:19:30

just some differences there, and I totally understand why it's

Jen Mueller: 00:19:34

there. I know people are going to have some strong opinions

Jen Mueller: 00:19:36

about that, but here's what happens when I get to go into

Jen Mueller: 00:19:40

your space and walking into a locker room or clubhouse, it's

Jen Mueller: 00:19:43

very clinical. We're all there to do a job. They're sitting

Jen Mueller: 00:19:47

there most of the time dressed at their lockers. And by the

Jen Mueller: 00:19:51

way, if you see somebody who's getting ready to go to the

Jen Mueller: 00:19:53

shower, you know what's going to happen. You just turn the other

Jen Mueller: 00:19:55

direction and you walk the other way. But when you're in that

Jen Mueller: 00:19:59

space, and I'll. Make the rounds every day, I'll make the rounds.

Jen Mueller: 00:20:02

And whoever's sitting at their locker, I'm going to have a

Jen Mueller: 00:20:04

conversation, probably for 60 seconds, but it's going to be my

Jen Mueller: 00:20:08

touch point for the my day, and that's going to be the Hello,

Jen Mueller: 00:20:10

right as I build the relationship. If I never get to

Jen Mueller: 00:20:14

do that in a uniformed way, you've got to go about

Jen Mueller: 00:20:19

relationship building differently. So now when you

Jen Mueller: 00:20:22

come off the court, if my only chance to catch you is when

Jen Mueller: 00:20:26

you're coming off the court or going on the court, I've got to

Jen Mueller: 00:20:29

be even better and even more dialed in at recognizing the

Jen Mueller: 00:20:34

work that you do and making an impression on you. So that means

Jen Mueller: 00:20:39

I need to been paying attention to say I saw how many free

Jen Mueller: 00:20:42

throws you hit in practice that was really impressive, or that

Jen Mueller: 00:20:45

three ball that you nailed, I don't know how you did that. Off

Jen Mueller: 00:20:49

balance. That's all I need to say, is they're off after

Jen Mueller: 00:20:52

practice, right? I'm paying attention. I'm here for you like

Jen Mueller: 00:20:56

I I want to know more about you.

Janice Porter: 00:21:00

Love it. I saw a couple of clips on, I think it

Janice Porter: 00:21:06

was YouTube of a program that you do. You still do this

Janice Porter: 00:21:09

program, the cooking

Jen Mueller: 00:21:10

show I do. It's called, I cook, you measure,

Jen Mueller: 00:21:13

yeah. It is on YouTube, yeah. So I bring most of the time it's

Jen Mueller: 00:21:17

professional athletes. Sometimes it's also media personalities

Jen Mueller: 00:21:21

into the kitchen with me, and it is exactly how it sounds. I do

Jen Mueller: 00:21:24

the cooking, they do the measuring, and to I would say,

Jen Mueller: 00:21:28

varying degrees of success. Some of these folks have a lot of

Jen Mueller: 00:21:32

experience in the kitchen. Others are learning how to use a

Jen Mueller: 00:21:35

can opener for the first time. But the idea is we're going to

Jen Mueller: 00:21:39

learn more about you in a setting that everybody is

Jen Mueller: 00:21:42

familiar with. It is an icebreaker, and now it's the

Jen Mueller: 00:21:47

athletes are humans too. Yeah, and also, we're going to learn

Jen Mueller: 00:21:51

together on a few of these things and have some

Jen Mueller: 00:21:53

conversations. How did you come up with that? Well, a dear

Jen Mueller: 00:21:56

friend of mine who works on the mariners radio broadcast was

Jen Mueller: 00:21:59

brainstorming with me when we were on a flight home. I think

Jen Mueller: 00:22:02

it was from Cleveland a handful of years ago, and during the

Jen Mueller: 00:22:06

pandemic, I, like everybody else, did a lot of cooking at

Jen Mueller: 00:22:08

home. I would post a lot of pictures on Instagram. And she

Jen Mueller: 00:22:11

said, you know, you need to come up with a way to make that work

Jen Mueller: 00:22:15

for you. Like that needs to be something. And so a couple of

Jen Mueller: 00:22:18

glasses of wine later, it was, you know, there's a cooking

Jen Mueller: 00:22:22

show, and I have excelled at creating feature programming

Jen Mueller: 00:22:28

around professional athletes for years. So it has been my job for

Jen Mueller: 00:22:32

20 years to create that content that is memorable, that helps

Jen Mueller: 00:22:36

you fall in love with your favorite player, that keeps you

Jen Mueller: 00:22:39

engaged. So this is an extension of what I have been doing for

Jen Mueller: 00:22:42

years, but it's in my own kitchen, cooking recipes and

Jen Mueller: 00:22:46

doing something else that I love, outside of sports,

Janice Porter: 00:22:48

that's fantastic. I love it. Now, you may have

Janice Porter: 00:22:51

answered this question, but I'm I want to just make sure it's

Janice Porter: 00:22:54

covered. What you talk about success statements, what are

Janice Porter: 00:22:58

they and how can professionals use them to build trust?

Jen Mueller: 00:23:01

That is your response to the question. How

Jen Mueller: 00:23:04

are you this is where we take that if it's going to be a

Jen Mueller: 00:23:08

conversational Norman script, because you and I both know it's

Jen Mueller: 00:23:11

not a great question for any number of reasons, but we're

Jen Mueller: 00:23:14

also not going to stop the question from happening, because

Jen Mueller: 00:23:17

it's a default setting for us. And you know what? In some

Jen Mueller: 00:23:20

cases, that's okay, but here's what we need to recognize, that

Jen Mueller: 00:23:25

is the most pivotal moment in every single conversation. We

Jen Mueller: 00:23:29

tend to treat that as the throw away, because we'll go through

Jen Mueller: 00:23:33

the How are you good? How are you good? And then we'll sit

Jen Mueller: 00:23:37

there and we'll wait for the conversation to start, yeah, why

Jen Mueller: 00:23:41

don't we just get a running start on this and deliver a

Jen Mueller: 00:23:44

success statement, which is a one sentence response to the

Jen Mueller: 00:23:47

question, how are you that answers the question so you can

Jen Mueller: 00:23:51

still be good, fine, great, trending in the right direction,

Jen Mueller: 00:23:55

but we're going to go one step further and Say why I'm awesome,

Jen Mueller: 00:24:00

because I am energized by the podcast that I take today,

Jen Mueller: 00:24:06

here's what we have done. We have highlighted something that

Jen Mueller: 00:24:08

we are proud of, that we feel like is an accomplishment, and I

Jen Mueller: 00:24:12

have made the follow up questions easy and obvious. I

Jen Mueller: 00:24:15

have taken that conversation and pointed it exactly where I want

Jen Mueller: 00:24:19

it to go. If I'm talking to a manager at work, the

Jen Mueller: 00:24:22

conversation sounds like this, I'm awesome and I am ahead of

Jen Mueller: 00:24:25

schedule on the show that I promise to deliver next week. In

Jen Mueller: 00:24:29

theory, any manager that I've ever reported to as a TV

Jen Mueller: 00:24:33

personality knows that I'm showing up to work because I am

Jen Mueller: 00:24:37

on TV, but what I want to make sure I highlight as a successes.

Jen Mueller: 00:24:41

I'm actually ahead of schedule. I'm going to make your job

Jen Mueller: 00:24:44

easier by keeping workflow on track for everybody else. If

Jen Mueller: 00:24:48

we're thinking about advocating for ourselves in other ways, you

Jen Mueller: 00:24:51

work in sales, you're reporting your quarterly results. I'm

Jen Mueller: 00:24:55

awesome, and I have exceeded my second quarter goals by 12% And

Jen Mueller: 00:25:01

nobody else is going to know this if you don't bring it to

Jen Mueller: 00:25:03

their attention, and if they don't ask questions, it's okay,

Jen Mueller: 00:25:09

because I just took that moment and I used it for me. I can walk

Jen Mueller: 00:25:14

away from that conversation, and I know I made an impression that

Jen Mueller: 00:25:20

I did the best I could to advocate for myself in about 15

Jen Mueller: 00:25:23

seconds.

Janice Porter: 00:25:24

Okay, that's very interesting to me. I'm glad I

Janice Porter: 00:25:27

asked it a different way then that you said that, because I

Janice Porter: 00:25:32

tend, because of that question, which, you know, it's

Janice Porter: 00:25:36

everywhere, like you said the default, I tend to turn it the

Janice Porter: 00:25:41

other way and say, I'll just, you know, brief, like I'm

Janice Porter: 00:25:45

thinking about sort of in the grocery store or in in a

Janice Porter: 00:25:48

networking event or something, where I might say, I'm doing

Janice Porter: 00:25:52

great. How are you doing? What's going on with you? And turning

Janice Porter: 00:25:55

it back to them and not advocating for myself, yeah,

Jen Mueller: 00:26:00

and you know, there are absolutely times and ways to

Jen Mueller: 00:26:03

do that. I'm not saying that we should never ask the other

Jen Mueller: 00:26:06

person or

Janice Porter: 00:26:06

open. No, I know you're not saying that, but, but

Janice Porter: 00:26:09

what you're saying is that it's an opportunity. It is advocate

Janice Porter: 00:26:13

for yourself. And I'm saying I don't, I never thought about

Janice Porter: 00:26:17

that.

Jen Mueller: 00:26:17

Yeah, yeah. So if you were looking to book more

Jen Mueller: 00:26:19

podcast guest, and you don't know where your next most

Jen Mueller: 00:26:22

interesting you know interview subject is going to be if you've

Jen Mueller: 00:26:26

always got it at the ready, because we can look at our

Jen Mueller: 00:26:28

schedule and know generally where we're going to be. We know

Jen Mueller: 00:26:32

who we're going to be in a meeting with, or we know that

Jen Mueller: 00:26:34

we're going to the coffee shop or the grocery store. It's just

Jen Mueller: 00:26:37

one line. I taped two podcasts today. I feel pretty good about

Jen Mueller: 00:26:40

myself. Got it now, if they're interested, oh, you've had a

Jen Mueller: 00:26:44

podcast, yeah. Oh, what's your podcast about? How often do you

Jen Mueller: 00:26:48

tape? When do you have people on? And now you you're

Jen Mueller: 00:26:51

prospecting clients or potential guests? Yes, without trying very

Jen Mueller: 00:26:57

hard.

Janice Porter: 00:26:58

Okay, so I noticed on LinkedIn that you had

Janice Porter: 00:27:01

done. Sorry, there's noise going on here. You did a post a week

Janice Porter: 00:27:09

ago. I don't get to avoid tough conversations after a loss. My

Janice Porter: 00:27:13

job is to conduct post game interviews, win or lose. Never

Janice Porter: 00:27:16

thought about it that way. Everyone gets a few minutes to

Janice Porter: 00:27:19

catch their breath, and then we dive into what happened. It's

Janice Porter: 00:27:21

performance review and a post mortem that plays out in front

Janice Porter: 00:27:24

of a large audience. What? What message did you bring to the

Janice Porter: 00:27:29

group you were talking to, which was a CFO round table in can you

Janice Porter: 00:27:35

share a bit of

Jen Mueller: 00:27:36

that? Yes, so most people don't think about the

Jen Mueller: 00:27:41

conversations that happen after a loss when they find out that

Jen Mueller: 00:27:44

I'm a sideline reporter, it's usually like, oh my gosh, that's

Jen Mueller: 00:27:48

so cool. Like, it must be so fun. It is most of the time,

Jen Mueller: 00:27:52

most of the time, and the expectations don't change after

Jen Mueller: 00:27:55

a loss. Here's what I tell CFOs, and I tell all of my corporate

Jen Mueller: 00:28:00

clients in this setting, there's a few things that actually make

Jen Mueller: 00:28:04

these conversations easy, obvious and expected. I would

Jen Mueller: 00:28:10

much rather be talking about a win than a loss, but when I walk

Jen Mueller: 00:28:14

in there after a loss, because of the way things have been

Jen Mueller: 00:28:18

communicated before the game by coaches, GMs, front offices,

Jen Mueller: 00:28:23

captains of the team, if they come up short, those players

Jen Mueller: 00:28:29

know what exactly we're talking about. And so those tough

Jen Mueller: 00:28:32

conversations, the ones that we try to kick, you know, down the

Jen Mueller: 00:28:35

road in business, and we're just going to give them some time to

Jen Mueller: 00:28:37

catch their breath, and we'll circle back around in a week or

Jen Mueller: 00:28:40

10 days. Look, everybody knows what's about to happen, so let's

Jen Mueller: 00:28:44

just hit this head on. My athletes want me to be very

Jen Mueller: 00:28:48

direct. If you were the one that missed the free throw with a

Jen Mueller: 00:28:51

chance to win it with two seconds to go, they know they

Jen Mueller: 00:28:54

missed the free throw, and they know that you're going to ask

Jen Mueller: 00:28:57

about it, because the expectation was it's your job to

Jen Mueller: 00:29:01

make the free throw, right and so you just go right after it.

Jen Mueller: 00:29:04

And you don't have to be you don't have to be ugly or rude

Jen Mueller: 00:29:09

about it, but the kind thing to do is to walk right up and say,

Jen Mueller: 00:29:14

We have seen you make that shot so many times. What happened on

Jen Mueller: 00:29:19

that final attempt? Right now, I'm just going to open it up,

Jen Mueller: 00:29:23

and I'm going to give you a chance to tell me the story of

Jen Mueller: 00:29:26

that play. That's always how I'm thinking about a post game

Jen Mueller: 00:29:29

interview. It's your chance to tell me the story of what

Jen Mueller: 00:29:32

happened. We can agree or disagree as to whether that's

Jen Mueller: 00:29:35

actually what happened, whether I think you should have hustled

Jen Mueller: 00:29:38

hard or I think you should have done that, but this is your

Jen Mueller: 00:29:42

chance to do this. The cool thing in sports is the objective

Jen Mueller: 00:29:47

is very clear. In basketball, and this is going to sound

Jen Mueller: 00:29:51

ridiculous in basketball, the objective is to score more

Jen Mueller: 00:29:56

points than the other team. It is painfully obvious. That's the

Jen Mueller: 00:30:00

objective. If you don't reach that objective, that

Jen Mueller: 00:30:03

conversation about accountability and feedback is

Jen Mueller: 00:30:05

actually fairly easy, because everybody knows we didn't reach

Jen Mueller: 00:30:08

the objective. The waters get muddied in business all the

Jen Mueller: 00:30:12

time, because what the CEO thinks is a success, or the CFO

Jen Mueller: 00:30:17

thinks is a success is not necessarily. What your sales

Jen Mueller: 00:30:21

manager thinks is a success is not what I think a success is.

Jen Mueller: 00:30:24

And so we need to be really clear going in, so that when we

Jen Mueller: 00:30:29

come out of situations, everybody is actually on the

Jen Mueller: 00:30:33

same page, and they're expecting that feedback and that

Jen Mueller: 00:30:36

accountability.

Janice Porter: 00:30:38

So when you did this presentation last week, I

Janice Porter: 00:30:43

think you called it. Her fun and informative. Stories about

Janice Porter: 00:30:47

influential conversations. I talked to losers sparked some

Janice Porter: 00:30:51

great conversations. So did you? Are your presentations

Janice Porter: 00:30:55

interactive? Do you you must get a lot of conversation started.

Janice Porter: 00:31:00

For sure, we we

Jen Mueller: 00:31:02

do get a lot of conversation started, and

Jen Mueller: 00:31:04

there's a lot of thought around how to use our words in

Jen Mueller: 00:31:09

different ways, how to use one word to change the conversation,

Jen Mueller: 00:31:14

just overall feel and what we get out of it, the value that we

Jen Mueller: 00:31:18

add to somebody. So we do spend time doing things like that.

Jen Mueller: 00:31:22

Here's here's one that we did, in fact, actually in that same

Jen Mueller: 00:31:26

session. So part of tough conversations, accountability

Jen Mueller: 00:31:29

and feedback is giving accurate praise to begin with. We are

Jen Mueller: 00:31:35

terrible at doing that in business, but coaches, great

Jen Mueller: 00:31:39

coaches in sports and high performers are phenomenal at

Jen Mueller: 00:31:43

giving accurate praise and feedback. We tend to default to

Jen Mueller: 00:31:48

the same thing over and over again. We would say things like,

Jen Mueller: 00:31:51

you did a great job, right? How was dinner last night? Oh, it

Jen Mueller: 00:31:56

was great. Oh, how was your weekend? It was great. We use

Jen Mueller: 00:31:59

great for everything, like a version of great for everything.

Jen Mueller: 00:32:03

So what I'll have the audience do is shout out a few other

Jen Mueller: 00:32:06

words of what actually was dinner, because a chef does not

Jen Mueller: 00:32:11

want to hear that Dinner was great. I have done this exercise

Jen Mueller: 00:32:13

with chefs. In fact, a few weeks ago, I did this with chefs, and

Jen Mueller: 00:32:16

I had everybody in the room and I said, tell me how your dinner

Jen Mueller: 00:32:19

was last night. We're sitting at the restaurant with the

Jen Mueller: 00:32:22

executive chef, and they said it was great. And I turned to the

Jen Mueller: 00:32:26

executive chef, and I said, is that what you wanted to hear?

Jen Mueller: 00:32:28

And his shoulders are slumped over. And I said, No, it's not.

Jen Mueller: 00:32:32

I said, Well, what did you want to hear? It was, well, I was

Jen Mueller: 00:32:36

hoping somebody would say it was savory. It was memorable. It was

Jen Mueller: 00:32:40

scrumptious. It was, you know, the flavors melded together. And

Jen Mueller: 00:32:44

so now you start figuring out how to use your full range of

Jen Mueller: 00:32:47

words. So we will do things like that, because one word changes

Jen Mueller: 00:32:53

the entire feeling and meaning of a sentence. So you really

Jen Mueller: 00:32:57

have to

Janice Porter: 00:32:58

be present and take and and and think more more

Janice Porter: 00:33:06

deeply really

Jen Mueller: 00:33:07

you do because it so. If you're just trying to pay

Jen Mueller: 00:33:11

a compliment to somebody, you could say you did a great job.

Jen Mueller: 00:33:15

Yeah, and I'll take a compliment like I will say, thank you so

Jen Mueller: 00:33:19

much. I really appreciate you recognizing that now, if

Jen Mueller: 00:33:22

somebody said, I can't believe how much time you spent

Jen Mueller: 00:33:28

preparing for our conversation, I really enjoyed the connection

Jen Mueller: 00:33:33

that's different. Or instead of saying you did a great job to

Jen Mueller: 00:33:37

say you were well prepared, that doesn't sound like it's better

Jen Mueller: 00:33:42

than great. Oh, wait, does that land so much more well, you did

Jen Mueller: 00:33:48

a great job.

Janice Porter: 00:33:49

You noticed something. You noticed

Janice Porter: 00:33:51

something, right? Totally. I get I love it. Okay? I think I could

Janice Porter: 00:33:55

talk to you forever, but I think I have to sort of round up,

Janice Porter: 00:33:57

round it up a little bit, and I want to ask one last question

Janice Porter: 00:34:01

around the work that you do and and maybe a couple of quick,

Janice Porter: 00:34:06

quick fires after that. If there's one actionable takeaway

Janice Porter: 00:34:09

that my listeners can try today to build can use today. I hate

Janice Porter: 00:34:13

that word try can use today to build better relationships. What

Janice Porter: 00:34:17

would it be if there's one actionable takeaway,

Jen Mueller: 00:34:21

recognize the power of small conversations and

Jen Mueller: 00:34:24

practice on somebody you don't know. Talk to somebody so that

Jen Mueller: 00:34:28

that Hello gets easier, so that you can practice a success

Jen Mueller: 00:34:32

statement in a low stakes environment. You are never going

Jen Mueller: 00:34:35

to get good at the big conversations and those big

Jen Mueller: 00:34:39

moments if you don't find small ways to practice and they are

Jen Mueller: 00:34:43

everywhere.

Janice Porter: 00:34:44

They are, they are. I love that. That's That's

Janice Porter: 00:34:46

amazing. Thanks. Jen, that's a great tip. I might have to use

Janice Porter: 00:34:49

that in my newsletter from you as well. Please do okay, um, all

Janice Porter: 00:34:55

right, so where can people find you? And it'll be in the show

Janice Porter: 00:34:58

notes. Yep,

Jen Mueller: 00:34:59

you can. Find me at talk sporty to me.com Okay,

Jen Mueller: 00:35:02

that's the easiest way to find me. Talk sporty to me on the

Jen Mueller: 00:35:05

socials. And if you're interested in the cooking show I

Jen Mueller: 00:35:08

cook you measure on YouTube is where you can find all the

Jen Mueller: 00:35:11

episodes.

Janice Porter: 00:35:12

And are you still found on on the field or in the

Janice Porter: 00:35:16

I

Jen Mueller: 00:35:16

am you can still watch me on mariners baseball

Jen Mueller: 00:35:18

games at home, and I am entering my 17th season as the Seahawks

Jen Mueller: 00:35:23

radio sideline reporter,

Janice Porter: 00:35:24

and if I turn on the mariners game, I wouldn't,

Janice Porter: 00:35:27

but my husband would I can say, oh, there's Jen. I know

Jen Mueller: 00:35:30

that's right. I'll be dodging the Gatorade bath

Jen Mueller: 00:35:32

after the game. Yep,

Janice Porter: 00:35:35

I love it. Okay, so quick, quick fire for you.

Janice Porter: 00:35:39

You, you strike me as a very high energy person and a great

Janice Porter: 00:35:45

conversationalist. I've enjoyed talking to you both times. Now,

Janice Porter: 00:35:49

what do you do to you know, get away from your work. What do you

Janice Porter: 00:35:54

like to do when you're not working?

Jen Mueller: 00:35:55

I will probably be cooking and having a glass of

Jen Mueller: 00:35:58

wine. There's lots of great wine in Washington State. Yes, I

Jen Mueller: 00:36:01

enjoy popping out to a winery and just having a glass of wine.

Janice Porter: 00:36:05

Perfect. What's your favorite kind of meal to go

Janice Porter: 00:36:08

out to restaurant to? Oh,

Jen Mueller: 00:36:11

that's a hard one. I will never say no to any

Jen Mueller: 00:36:16

version of Tex Mex, Mexican food, like Southwest food.

Janice Porter: 00:36:20

I thought that was going to be the answer. Oh

Jen Mueller: 00:36:22

no, okay, it's the one that I'm probably not going

Jen Mueller: 00:36:25

to make as well at home, like I can make it well, but there's

Jen Mueller: 00:36:28

something about going out for Mexican food with the chips and

Jen Mueller: 00:36:31

salsa. That's probably what I will do,

Janice Porter: 00:36:34

what I expected. Okay, all right. And last

Janice Porter: 00:36:38

question, I like to I love the word curiosity, and I would like

Janice Porter: 00:36:44

to know there's no right or wrong answer, but there's two

Janice Porter: 00:36:46

parts to this question, and it will, I promise, be the last

Janice Porter: 00:36:49

question. Do you think curiosity is innate or learned? And part

Janice Porter: 00:36:55

two is, what are you most curious about these days? Ooh,

Jen Mueller: 00:37:00

I I think we can learn to be curious. I think

Jen Mueller: 00:37:02

some people are naturally curious, but I do think we can

Jen Mueller: 00:37:05

learn to be curious. And what I am curious about right now,

Jen Mueller: 00:37:09

quite honestly, is how to make a big transition. I watch athletes

Jen Mueller: 00:37:16

do it all the time when they change careers, and there gets

Jen Mueller: 00:37:18

to be a certain part point where you get curious about, hey, what

Jen Mueller: 00:37:22

else could I be doing? And I'm really curious about how to do

Jen Mueller: 00:37:26

that well, and how to find different ways to serve the

Jen Mueller: 00:37:31

community that I haven't been able

Janice Porter: 00:37:33

to do yet. Oh, you're on your way. I think,

Janice Porter: 00:37:36

well, thank you. I think so yes. So thank you for being here

Janice Porter: 00:37:40

today. I hope my audience enjoyed what your what you had

Janice Porter: 00:37:44

to say, and please remember if you do to leave a review, we'd

Janice Porter: 00:37:48

love that, and to touch base with Jen and follow what she's

Janice Porter: 00:37:51

up to. I think that her insights remind us that strong business

Janice Porter: 00:37:55

relationships aren't built on time. They're built on

Janice Porter: 00:37:59

intention. Whether you're at a networking event, a team

Janice Porter: 00:38:02

meeting, or making a first impression, the ability to

Janice Porter: 00:38:04

connect quickly and authentically is a true

Janice Porter: 00:38:07

competitive advantage. Jen's techniques prove that with the

Janice Porter: 00:38:10

right approach, even the shortest conversations can leave

Janice Porter: 00:38:13

the deepest impact. So thank you. Thank you for those

Janice Porter: 00:38:17

insights today, Jen, and appreciate you being here and

Janice Porter: 00:38:21

taking the time to be with

Jen Mueller: 00:38:22

us. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks

Jen Mueller: 00:38:25

so much. Janice,

Janice Porter: 00:38:26

my pleasure and to my audience, remember to stay

Janice Porter: 00:38:29

connected and be remembered. You.