Why Every Creator Needs to Understand Intellectual Property | RR290

Janice Porter: 00:00:02

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter: 00:00:04

episode of relationships rule. My guest this week is Celeste,

Janice Porter: 00:00:08

the trademark accelerator, and this is an interesting topic

Janice Porter: 00:00:12

that I know very little about, and so I thought it would be

Janice Porter: 00:00:15

interesting to share with you my audience, because Celeste has

Janice Porter: 00:00:22

been in this field for many, many years, and she is a pro at

Janice Porter: 00:00:26

it, and so I appreciate her coming on the show. Welcome to

Janice Porter: 00:00:29

the show, Celeste. Thank you so much for having me. I really

Janice Porter: 00:00:32

appreciate it. You're very welcome. Celeste is coming to us

Janice Porter: 00:00:35

from England, which is really cool, and for the past 10 years,

Janice Porter: 00:00:39

has been consulting clients who feel overwhelmed by the daunting

Janice Porter: 00:00:43

task of trademark application. She's aware that not everything

Janice Porter: 00:00:47

can or should be trade become trademarks, and will only

Janice Porter: 00:00:52

perform the application if she's certain that she can avoid

Janice Porter: 00:00:56

wasting her clients money. And so that's probably a really good

Janice Porter: 00:00:59

place to start, like what is trademarkable and what isn't.

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:05

So anything that is generic cannot be

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:08

trademarked, and anything that is unique can't. Well, not

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:11

anything, but things that are unique can be because there are

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:17

still things that cannot, cannot and should not ever be

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:20

trademarked and and that's as it should be, because if everything

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:25

could be trademarked, then we wouldn't be able to have a

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:27

normal conversation, and that would be a pain in the behind,

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:29

as you can imagine. So so it's really important to know and

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:34

understand that, yes, you may be able to do it yourself to

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:38

register a trademark yourself. However, there is that thing

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:41

with a rejection. You may not understand why the trademark

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:47

authority rejected it, and you may not think that that you did

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:53

anything wrong. However, you will not get the money back,

Celeste Reumert: 00:01:55

because all the trademark authorities all over the world,

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:00

they will always all work in the same way, where they assess your

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:05

application, and if you do not have the legal knowledge, you

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:11

may actually risk being rejected. You may be lucky and

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:15

do register a trademark yourself. However, in many

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:18

cases, you will get a rejection, and what you don't get is you

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:24

don't get the money back, because they perform their job

Celeste Reumert: 00:02:27

and assess your

Janice Porter: 00:02:29

Yeah, so you're better to work with an expert

Janice Porter: 00:02:31

like you to make sure that you're going on the right track.

Janice Porter: 00:02:34

So I think of trademarks as visual things that you're

Janice Porter: 00:02:41

trademarking, like a logo or a title, or, you know, your store

Janice Porter: 00:02:46

name, or, you know, things that people visual things. And I

Janice Porter: 00:02:50

think, okay, so there's intellectual property. Is that

Janice Porter: 00:02:54

the like umbrella of all these things? Okay, so trademarks, and

Janice Porter: 00:02:58

then copyrights, and then what else is there? Copyright is like

Janice Porter: 00:03:02

for books and things, right? And papers and words,

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:05

yes, and this is So, this is my book, and I

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:09

have a copyright. Control your own

Janice Porter: 00:03:11

copyright. It's more, okay, perfect. It needs

Janice Porter: 00:03:16

updating, yeah.

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:18

But this, this is my book, and it's my it's

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:20

actually my life's work, and what I've done also, because I'm

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:23

me, I've put my trademark on every single page.

Janice Porter: 00:03:28

Ah, okay. And for our listeners, the trademark

Janice Porter: 00:03:32

that Celeste has is like her shield. It's like, it's almost

Janice Porter: 00:03:37

like a shield. So she has, it's unique, and therefore it was

Janice Porter: 00:03:40

able to be trademarked, and that's what I'm seeing. And her

Janice Porter: 00:03:43

company name is Grand IPR, correct? Yes, that is correct.

Janice Porter: 00:03:47

Okay, so we've got, we've got content would be under

Janice Porter: 00:03:51

copyright. Is that correct?

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:53

Yes, and so. And it also covers films and it

Celeste Reumert: 00:03:57

covers photographs and it covers sound recording and

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:01

architecture. And actually, in France, they are quite adamant

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:07

about upholding rights to certain structures. So the

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:13

Eiffel Tower, for instance, even though it was built back in the

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:17

1800s there is now a light installation on it. And if you

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:22

do not have specific permission, you may photograph it, but you

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:26

may not use it for purposes you have to obtain permit. Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:04:33

interesting. But how do they how do they monitor

Janice Porter: 00:04:35

that?

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:38

I don't know how they monitor that. I just

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:39

know that that's how, how they, they behave in France, right?

Janice Porter: 00:04:45

Interesting. So, okay, so that actually interests

Janice Porter: 00:04:49

me in that you live where, in London, right? Or no, I live

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:53

in England. I live in North Lacher, but my

Celeste Reumert: 00:04:55

business is registered in London, right?

Janice Porter: 00:04:58

So, but, and you're, you. Have lived in, I

Janice Porter: 00:05:01

think you're Danish. Is that correct? Or you've lived in

Janice Porter: 00:05:03

Denmark, you went to

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:04

school, and I was born in Denmark, correct?

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:06

And I studied the law in Denmark, and I always felt that

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:11

I wanted to move sort of beyond the little, little areas that

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:19

Denmark is. Denmark is. Denmark is a very, very small economic

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:23

area, even though it's a strong one, there are only 7 million

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:28

people in all of Denmark. So like, Paris is like twice as big

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:32

Paris alone,

Janice Porter: 00:05:33

you know, so are things different in Europe than

Janice Porter: 00:05:38

they are in North America when it comes to trademark and

Janice Porter: 00:05:42

copyright. Do you know, or is it just usually that it with this

Janice Porter: 00:05:45

type of thing? It's the same worldwide.

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:48

The really, really excellent thing for me is

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:50

it's more or less the same worldwide. So that makes my life

Celeste Reumert: 00:05:53

so much easier. And and, yeah, people do?

Janice Porter: 00:06:00

People? Do people apply for trademarks in multiple

Janice Porter: 00:06:07

countries?

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:08

Yes, there is no such thing as a global

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:11

trademark that does not exist. So even the big brands that we

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:14

think of as a global trademark, such as Apple, for instance,

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:17

yes, is not a global trademark. They

Janice Porter: 00:06:19

have to have the trademark in every country that

Janice Porter: 00:06:22

they sell, and they

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:23

don't, they don't even have it every single

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:25

country, because there will be countries where it's deemed on,

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:28

on worthwhile for them or not worthwhile. That was a funny

Celeste Reumert: 00:06:32

word I made up.

Janice Porter: 00:06:35

Yeah, not worthwhile, yeah. So, yeah. Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:06:38

interesting. Okay, that I didn't, I wouldn't have thought

Janice Porter: 00:06:42

of so you, you have, you have a couple of comments here on, I

Janice Porter: 00:06:48

think it might be a workshop that you do, but you're talking

Janice Porter: 00:06:51

about what people need to know, about how to protect their their

Janice Porter: 00:06:55

content, their copyright, their cash flow, their credibility and

Janice Porter: 00:06:59

their confidentiality. And so those are all interesting to me.

Janice Porter: 00:07:04

So how do you copyright your cash or, how do you protect your

Janice Porter: 00:07:08

cash flow? First of all,

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:10

so these are all all topics that I touch on

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:13

in the upcoming event I did. I actually wrapped it last week,

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:17

and I'm doing it again in November on the 25th so it's

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:22

five days, and these are 30 minute sessions, and there is a

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:27

mystery gift for the people who attend. To be eligible, they

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:30

have to be there all five days. And it's it's a really great and

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:37

fun event, because people come with different backgrounds and

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:41

different sort of issues and different experiences, and so

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:46

are

Janice Porter: 00:07:46

they learning? It's mostly to learn about how

Janice Porter: 00:07:48

to trademark something, or whether what they have is is

Janice Porter: 00:07:52

worthy of being trademarked. It

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:54

is to learn what type of intellectual

Celeste Reumert: 00:07:56

property they have. First of all, okay, because all of, all

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:01

of so all of the intellectual property goes hand in hand to

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:04

form a stronger shield of protection, as I always say, Oh,

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:07

okay. And actually, people have a tendency to push intellectual

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:13

property to the backs of their minds because it sounds so

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:15

complex. And yes, it is complex. However, for me, it is not

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:20

complex, and I absolutely love it. And I love these events that

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:26

I'm doing so much that I will just keep doing them, because

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:30

they are so educational for people, and they just love them.

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:35

I got some really, really great testimonials. So I just, I just

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:40

know that this is part of what I'm meant to be doing moving

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:44

forward. So, you know, there's no question about that. And it

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:49

is also important that people understand that they can have

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:52

different types of intellectual property that can affect their

Celeste Reumert: 00:08:55

cash flow if they don't protect it.

Janice Porter: 00:08:58

Well, I think what comes to my mind is what

Janice Porter: 00:09:02

the big, huge changes that happened a few years ago in the

Janice Porter: 00:09:06

music industry, and how artists and songwriters and so on really

Janice Porter: 00:09:14

had to step up their protection of their properties. And we saw

Janice Porter: 00:09:19

Taylor

Celeste Reumert: 00:09:19

Swift, she all of her own work, yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:09:25

because somebody else was owned. Her property,

Janice Porter: 00:09:28

right? And intellectual property, intellectual property,

Janice Porter: 00:09:31

yes, her intellectual property, yeah. And so she chose to do

Janice Porter: 00:09:34

that, but, and that's a huge undertaking and expense in

Janice Porter: 00:09:37

itself, but then she has a license to print money anyway.

Janice Porter: 00:09:40

But anyway, that's, she's, she's another story. However, she's

Celeste Reumert: 00:09:45

an interesting lady. And, yeah, she's got loads

Celeste Reumert: 00:09:48

of trademarks, by the way.

Janice Porter: 00:09:49

Yeah, interesting. So, so there's

Janice Porter: 00:09:52

that. And then I think the rise of intellectual property

Janice Porter: 00:09:58

attorneys rose as well. Because it became, it has become, with

Janice Porter: 00:10:02

the way the world is a bigger issue now we've got chat GPT and

Janice Porter: 00:10:07

all of the things that go along with that. There's going to be

Janice Porter: 00:10:10

more laws and more new ways of looking at things to protect

Janice Porter: 00:10:15

people's intellectual property, right?

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:18

And also, the thing is, with regards to AI, I

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:22

use it because it's to me who experiences life with dyslexia.

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:27

It was a label I got right after I got my master's degree in law.

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:32

It can help me immensely to get stuff with the help of AI and

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:43

and the more creative we are, and the more sort of we refine

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:49

it, the more protectable it actually becomes. At the

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:54

beginning, I thought that that's there's no way that this is

Celeste Reumert: 00:10:56

protectable. And actually, I heard a podcast from Denmark the

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:00

other day, where they said that the more you are creative with

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:04

what you put into it. And that's the important thing to know

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:09

about, AI, because when we started out using it, I started

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:13

I had no idea how to use it. I just, you know, put whatever in.

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:17

And so the result came back really, really poor. But the

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:20

better we get at romping the AI tool to work for us, the more it

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:25

gets to sound, I guess, and the more it gets protectable,

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:29

actually. So that's really, really interesting. And, and

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:34

even, yeah, even, even photographers can also use AI

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:40

prompts and stuff like that. So it is about being as creative. I

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:45

think there was something in that podcast, unfortunately, in

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:48

some Danish. So unless people understand Danish, they won't

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:52

understand what's going on. But there, I think there was

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:55

something about a Vogue photo shoot where the photographer had

Celeste Reumert: 00:11:59

been really, really creative, and put in loads and loads and

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:02

loads and loads and loads of information, and each time

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:05

tweaking it so that it became more and more refined, and that

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:09

then was a Vogue cover, and that was actually protectable. And

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:15

this is really important to know and understand, because

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:17

otherwise we can think that, oh no, because it's an AI tool, I'm

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:20

not protected, actually, yes, we are. So

Janice Porter: 00:12:23

you're saying that they, this photographer

Janice Porter: 00:12:25

created the shoot through AI. I'm

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:29

not entirely sure how that happened. I just

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:31

know that the prots that

Janice Porter: 00:12:33

were put in, well, they do do visuals on it,

Janice Porter: 00:12:37

so it makes sense. Yeah, I think that

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:40

it was the visual for it. I'm not sure it

Celeste Reumert: 00:12:42

was the actual photo shoot, but it was definitely a vote that

Janice Porter: 00:12:46

was probably an artificial photo shoot. It was

Janice Porter: 00:12:49

done through AI, yeah, interesting, yeah. And you never

Janice Porter: 00:12:53

know anymore. Like, you know, I'm a LinkedIn trainer, and I've

Janice Porter: 00:12:57

been doing some training lately with a group of people that are

Janice Porter: 00:13:00

in this corporation. And I always talk about, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:13:05

their headshots, and three of the last people that I've talked

Janice Porter: 00:13:09

to have all used AI photos. And I'm like, really, like, I didn't

Janice Porter: 00:13:15

know two of them were but the third one, I knew the person, so

Janice Porter: 00:13:18

I knew it was something a bit off to me, but I can still

Janice Porter: 00:13:22

recognize it, but I it some of it's weird, still weird, like

Janice Porter: 00:13:27

and of course, the people are saying to me, well, it saved me

Janice Porter: 00:13:30

a lot of money and time to do it that way. But, you know, I don't

Janice Porter: 00:13:34

want to put people out of a job yet. Thank you. So I say go to a

Janice Porter: 00:13:37

photographer. But I just thought it was interesting that, you

Janice Porter: 00:13:41

know, we're using it for many different things, and in good

Janice Porter: 00:13:44

ways and in bad ways. So that's where the trademarks and the

Janice Porter: 00:13:47

copyrights and all of that comes into play as well right now. And

Janice Porter: 00:13:50

we also

Celeste Reumert: 00:13:51

have to be very, very aware of deep fake,

Celeste Reumert: 00:13:55

because it has become so mind blowing that I saw a short video

Celeste Reumert: 00:14:04

clip. I think it was on LinkedIn, where or YouTube. I

Celeste Reumert: 00:14:07

can't remember exactly where, but it you saw like at the front

Celeste Reumert: 00:14:12

there was a female, and then up in the corner you saw a man, and

Celeste Reumert: 00:14:17

it was the man's voice that came out of the female's mouth. And

Celeste Reumert: 00:14:21

so it was just showing how deep fake has become. So they can

Celeste Reumert: 00:14:27

really manipulate. Yes,

Janice Porter: 00:14:29

I've seen some examples of manipulation as

Janice Porter: 00:14:32

well. In fact, Oprah did an interesting show on AI a couple

Janice Porter: 00:14:37

a few weeks ago, and they had some different examples of

Janice Porter: 00:14:39

things that they showed it was quite, quite devastating. It was

Janice Porter: 00:14:44

kind of eye opening, but scary in a lot of ways, for sure. So

Janice Porter: 00:14:50

you've talked a little bit about, and this is sort of an

Janice Porter: 00:14:53

aside, but you've talked twice now about dyslexia and being

Janice Porter: 00:14:58

diagnosed. As an adult with dyslexia. So if you went all

Janice Porter: 00:15:04

through school and all through your life to that point not

Janice Porter: 00:15:07

knowing what was wrong, but you struggled with reading, I'm

Janice Porter: 00:15:11

said, I'm guessing and

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:13

not reading homework, I hated homework the

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:18

way.

Janice Porter: 00:15:18

You don't have to be you don't have to hate have

Janice Porter: 00:15:20

dyslexia to hate homework. So how did it

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:23

affect you? I didn't thrive with it. I didn't.

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:26

I didn't enjoy it. I didn't, yeah, I didn't like it. And I,

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:32

you know, I don't know why. I just didn't, didn't enjoy it,

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:36

and and I'm managed to go through, like, the majority of

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:41

my schooling, and as I say, I started studying the law at 35

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:46

so there was a gap between. I finished whatever I was doing

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:51

before and then started studying the law. And I just had no idea.

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:55

I just thought that I was incredibly slow when it and I

Celeste Reumert: 00:15:59

didn't understand how to structure an assignment. Even

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:05

while I was at university, I didn't understand how to

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:07

structure it properly. And so that was I didn't get very good

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:14

grades, except in intellectual property

Janice Porter: 00:16:19

well, but with from my understanding I was a

Janice Porter: 00:16:21

teacher, and from my understanding dyslexia is seeing

Janice Porter: 00:16:24

letters and numbers backwards and mixing them up. In some

Janice Porter: 00:16:29

cases, I

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:29

don't do that necessarily. Just there are just

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:31

words. They're just words that I cannot re spell, like

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:36

Switzerland and Danish, I cannot spell it. Yeah, there are things

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:42

the word necessary in English, I've had to figure out a way to

Celeste Reumert: 00:16:46

say the word to myself so that I can spell it.

Janice Porter: 00:16:51

Okay. So spelling is an issue. Yes, yeah. And

Janice Porter: 00:16:54

grammar is an issue, okay, okay. Well, and how many languages do

Janice Porter: 00:16:58

you speak? Six? Yes, see, so no wonder. I mean, it's got to be

Janice Porter: 00:17:03

confusing. I mean, nobody speaks that. Only Europeans are the

Janice Porter: 00:17:06

people that I know that speak more than one, that were two

Janice Porter: 00:17:08

languages at the most. I'm so envious, and I could never start

Janice Porter: 00:17:11

at this late age, but it's amazing to me. But that has to

Janice Porter: 00:17:15

come into play, because, you know, actually I saw, I saw a

Janice Porter: 00:17:20

very funny bit on Instagram where this guy was showing

Janice Porter: 00:17:25

words, and he said, like, B, O M, B, bomb. And then he put the

Janice Porter: 00:17:29

next word up, C, O M, B, that should be calm, right? No, it's

Janice Porter: 00:17:33

calm. And then he went through a whole list of them. It was

Janice Porter: 00:17:36

hysterical, because the English language is not easy for for a

Janice Porter: 00:17:40

foreigner to to understand spelling and and reading wise.

Janice Porter: 00:17:43

So I would imagine that would play into you learn if you've

Janice Porter: 00:17:47

been able to learn so many different languages, are you

Janice Porter: 00:17:50

sure them

Celeste Reumert: 00:17:50

since I was a little child? Yeah, I think that

Celeste Reumert: 00:17:54

has something to do with it, because, and I've always loved

Celeste Reumert: 00:17:57

languages. And actually my father, well, you know, both my

Celeste Reumert: 00:18:01

father and my mother and my maternal grandmother, they would

Celeste Reumert: 00:18:03

read stories to me, so maybe that's why I love reading. I

Celeste Reumert: 00:18:07

don't know. However, there was one story in particular that my

Celeste Reumert: 00:18:12

father was reading where there was this young girl who

Celeste Reumert: 00:18:16

collected words. So I started collecting

Janice Porter: 00:18:20

I love it. That's great. Well, my granddaughter,

Janice Porter: 00:18:24

I'm going off on a little tangent here, but my

Janice Porter: 00:18:26

granddaughter, who's five, couple weeks ago, was over and

Janice Porter: 00:18:29

said she wanted to watch this little five year old special

Janice Porter: 00:18:33

show Paw Patrol, which is big in the United States and Canada.

Janice Porter: 00:18:37

And I couldn't find it as well. Okay, so I couldn't find what

Janice Porter: 00:18:41

she wanted on Netflix, so we found it, and it was on the

Janice Porter: 00:18:46

French channel. And I said, Well, you have to watch it in

Janice Porter: 00:18:48

French. She said, Okay, grandma, so she'd seen it before anyway,

Janice Porter: 00:18:51

so she knew exactly what was going on, and she watched it in

Janice Porter: 00:18:54

French. So she came over last week and she said, Could I watch

Janice Porter: 00:18:57

that show in French again, grandma? So I thought that was

Janice Porter: 00:19:01

really funny. And that's when they're going to pick it up,

Janice Porter: 00:19:03

right? That's when they're going to pay attention to that. So I

Janice Porter: 00:19:07

thought that was really funny. Okay, I digressed. And okay, so

Janice Porter: 00:19:15

if I would imagine what the answer will be to this, but I'm

Janice Porter: 00:19:19

going to ask you anyway. So do people talk to you about the

Janice Porter: 00:19:25

names of their companies and whether and then, do you often

Janice Porter: 00:19:29

suggest or recommend a tweak to make it trademarkable?

Celeste Reumert: 00:19:34

Yes, they do, and that's what the asks list.

Celeste Reumert: 00:19:39

Anything session is for so that they can ask me all the

Celeste Reumert: 00:19:43

questions that are like, Oh, I don't know what to do about

Celeste Reumert: 00:19:47

this. Or I don't know, is this even something that can become

Celeste Reumert: 00:19:52

registered as a trademark or, you know, and in those sessions,

Celeste Reumert: 00:19:55

I can then say, I recommend that you can. Something different,

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:01

and depending on how many questions they have, because

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:04

they may have many questions that may eat up all the time

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:09

because it's a 15 minute session, however, if it's just

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:13

the one question, then we can sit and have a conversation

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:17

about what I would suggest, like I I would never suggest to

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:23

someone that they use their personal name for their

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:25

business. I do say that. Sorry. I knew you were going to say

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:30

that, yeah, because I there was a Danish clothes designer that

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:37

I'm connected to on LinkedIn. We weren't we weren't friends. When

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:43

I heard her story, because it was part of the case study, what

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:48

I was studying in the law. However, she had a business, and

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:51

she was using her personal name for her label, and to cut a

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:55

really long and tedious story short, the label, her business

Celeste Reumert: 00:20:59

went bust, and the label was sold to a third party, and then

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:03

she continued using her name as her label, and then she was

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:08

infringing upon Yeah, and so the High Court of Denmark has

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:15

sentenced her to find herself a new name, and so it's only on

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:19

social media in her own home, she is still the same person.

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:23

She can still use her birth name, but on social media. And

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:27

so she chose the name Lou, because in in Danish, l, I, V

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:32

means life, and she reasoned that she was not dead, she was

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:36

still alive. So that's why she chose that, and she now has a

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:39

completely different business name, and she's doing really,

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:44

really well, and she's massively successful, and she's absolutely

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:48

a wonderful person. And actually, something similar

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:50

happened to a designer here in the UK called karen millen. I

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:54

haven't got the exact details of her story, but it's something

Celeste Reumert: 00:21:59

similar. So I always say, be careful of using your own

Celeste Reumert: 00:22:04

personal name, because it may actually have severe

Celeste Reumert: 00:22:08

consequences. And, you know, I see it as my, my job to protect

Celeste Reumert: 00:22:17

people as best I can. And even in those 15 minutes I will, I

Celeste Reumert: 00:22:21

will do my best to do that. That's

Janice Porter: 00:22:22

very interesting. Those are good stories, good

Janice Porter: 00:22:25

examples. Mm, hmm. So, of course, I did that. I chose my

Janice Porter: 00:22:36

name because I learned that. You know, I was a one. I was a solo

Janice Porter: 00:22:42

printer, and I wanted people to recognize me for they. Wanted

Janice Porter: 00:22:46

them to know my name, because I'm all about relationships and

Janice Porter: 00:22:48

people, and so I wanted to make sure that you meet. But you

Janice Porter: 00:22:51

know, if I had to do it again, I'd probably do something

Janice Porter: 00:22:55

different. But I don't know it's too late for me now, but that's

Janice Porter: 00:22:57

okay. It's all good. So, but it definitely is an interesting and

Janice Porter: 00:23:04

we ought to take more we are. We ought to pay more attention to

Janice Porter: 00:23:10

trademarking and register and copyrights and things like that,

Janice Porter: 00:23:15

because in this, this is the word litigious, litigious world

Janice Porter: 00:23:20

where people are suing people left and right.

Celeste Reumert: 00:23:23

We do have to, and especially in North America.

Celeste Reumert: 00:23:25

Oh, I know, yeah, very, very particular to to North America.

Celeste Reumert: 00:23:29

I know they are, well, more more

Janice Porter: 00:23:31

the US than Canada. Canada is we're all too

Janice Porter: 00:23:34

polite. Okay, sorry, I'm in us, so that's okay. I'm not, I'm not

Janice Porter: 00:23:38

offended, for sure, but it is something that it sounds as

Janice Porter: 00:23:42

though having an expert guide one through it is also the best

Janice Porter: 00:23:48

way to go. So okay, you live in the UK. You speak a lot of

Janice Porter: 00:23:53

Denmark because you went to school. You did some schooling

Janice Porter: 00:23:56

there. Do you ever come over here to North America? Have you

Janice Porter: 00:23:59

ever been over to North America, not yet,

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:02

and I'm not averse to it. I would like to,

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:07

and I obviously also do read up about the legislation in both

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:13

Canada and America, because in Canada actually the trademark

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:20

protection is a tiny bit longer than in most of the countries,

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:24

because in Canada, it is 15 years, and most other countries

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:27

have a 10 year period. So in Canada, it's a 15 year renewal

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:31

cycle, and in other countries, it's a 10 year, uh, renewal

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:35

cycle. And in America, after five years, you have to provide

Celeste Reumert: 00:24:41

proof of usage.

Janice Porter: 00:24:44

Oh, really, yes, what? Or they take it away, or,

Janice Porter: 00:24:48

or what it could Oh, interesting, yes. What's an

Janice Porter: 00:24:53

example of that? So you like you would need, you would start a

Janice Porter: 00:24:57

company and get it trademarked, the name trademarks, but then

Janice Porter: 00:24:59

you may. Maybe don't do anything for a couple of years with it.

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:02

I don't have any examples of people that

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:06

haven't done that. I have examples of of companies that

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:09

haven't upheld their their rights. So Sony, Oh no, what?

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:13

Yeah, Sony had Walkman. Walkman was a trademark. It's no longer

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:17

a trademark. Escalator used to be a trademark. Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:25:21

interesting escalator,

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:23

yeah. Um, I know that Xerox is very, very,

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:29

uh, aware of people saying that they're xeroxing stuff, because

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:32

that is not, that is not right. You, you can copy something with

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:37

the photocopier, but you don't Xerox it.

Janice Porter: 00:25:40

And that's like, Kleenex too. Then I guess,

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:44

I don't know if Kleenex has fallen in. I haven't

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:47

looked that up, but I, you know, I had, I had a few examples in

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:51

my book, but, yeah, those are the ones that I can remember. I

Celeste Reumert: 00:25:56

think, yeah, escalator nylon was a trademark as well. So it's

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:02

just really, really important that you have your trademark and

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:06

then you register it, but you cannot leave it alone. You need

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:09

to enforce it as well, and that is also part of the service that

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:15

I deliver. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:26:17

excellent. All right. So couple of last

Janice Porter: 00:26:20

questions for you, please, Celeste, the first one is, what

Janice Porter: 00:26:25

is your best piece of advice that you would give my audience

Janice Porter: 00:26:29

around what you do? What would you like to leave with them?

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:33

I want them to reflect on whatever it is that

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:39

they have created, and really know and understand that it has

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:45

real value in the world, and as such, it does actually need

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:53

tender love and care in the form of either copyright protection

Celeste Reumert: 00:26:57

or, well, not either, or actually both, so that they

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:03

protect it. And if it is an object, like an iPhone for for

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:09

Apple, you know, it's not just the item itself. It is the whole

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:15

experience. So the box itself, the way things are organized

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:19

inside the box, really, all of that has been thought off, and

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:26

they are protecting that. So in Denmark, they refer to something

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:32

called trade dress, and it's, it's, it's the packaging of how

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:37

something is presented to you as the consumer. So there are so

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:42

many things to consider once you have because you know, if you

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:46

have a signature program or a new product, or you have made a

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:54

new invention, like, say, you've had a massive breakthrough in

Celeste Reumert: 00:27:58

medical invention that deserves a protection with a patent. So

Celeste Reumert: 00:28:05

it is. It's about sitting back and thinking, Okay, this thing

Celeste Reumert: 00:28:10

that I have put all my time, energy, love and maybe even

Celeste Reumert: 00:28:15

tears and blood and sweat into it deserves me looking properly

Celeste Reumert: 00:28:21

after it. So I'm going to talk to somebody like Celeste and and

Celeste Reumert: 00:28:27

have her help me in this situation, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:28:30

yeah, that's excellent advice. And I'm always

Janice Porter: 00:28:34

curious. I'm a curious person, and I'm I'm curious to know your

Janice Porter: 00:28:40

thoughts on curiosity. So do you think that curiosity is innate

Janice Porter: 00:28:46

or learned? And part two, what are you most curious about

Janice Porter: 00:28:51

today? So part one, first,

Celeste Reumert: 00:28:56

I think maybe it is innate, because there are

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:00

people that are just not that curious, and there are people

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:03

that, you know almost feel that they themselves are all they

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:09

ever need. And you know, that's fine. I'm not judging anyone

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:12

here. It's just I think that curiosity is what helps us to be

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:18

creative and innovative. And what am I curious about this

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:25

conversation today, I was curious about where it would

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:28

take us, and I've totally loved this conversation because it has

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:32

taken us in many different directions. And that's what I

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:34

love. That's what Curiosity will do for you. It will lead you

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:38

down different paths, and then you come back, and then you go

Celeste Reumert: 00:29:41

down another path. I totally love that. Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:29:44

excellent. I'm glad that you enjoyed it,

Janice Porter: 00:29:46

because I guess that's my crazy mind and what happens and and my

Janice Porter: 00:29:49

curiosity takes over. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for

Janice Porter: 00:29:52

being here today. It was most enjoyable and informative as

Janice Porter: 00:29:56

well. In many ways, I appreciated that, and I hope my

Janice Porter: 00:29:59

audience does. Two and to that point, thank you for being here.

Janice Porter: 00:30:03

And please let me know. Let us know if you like what you heard.

Janice Porter: 00:30:07

And please feel free to get hold of Celeste. Check out her book.

Janice Porter: 00:30:11

I will leave the information to find her in the show notes. And

Janice Porter: 00:30:17

remember to stay connected and be remembered. Thank you for

Janice Porter: 00:30:21

having me. You're welcome.