How Simplifying Marketing Strategies can Lead to Business Growth | RR266

Janice Porter: 00:00:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter: 00:00:03

episode of relationships rule. My special guest today is

Janice Porter: 00:00:07

Caroline Crawford. Caroline is a marketer, a marketing and

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communications expert. And she's coming to us from sunny Florida,

Janice Porter: 00:00:16

which I say that it's usually sunny there compared to where I

Janice Porter: 00:00:20

am. So welcome to the show, Caroline.

Caroline Crawford: 00:00:23

Thank you so much for having me, Janice. I'm

Janice Porter: 00:00:25

excited to be here. My pleasure. So I know

Janice Porter: 00:00:28

that you've been in this business for about 13 years or

Janice Porter: 00:00:31

so and basically, didn't think didn't know I'm not sure if you

Janice Porter: 00:00:36

got there by choice, or by chance you fell into it. But I

Janice Porter: 00:00:40

think that you love what you do from what I have gleaned in

Janice Porter: 00:00:45

conversations with you. And I am going to start by asking you a

Janice Porter: 00:00:49

Caroline is the owner of a company called cultivate

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communications.com. And when I just say it, I think the word

Janice Porter: 00:00:58

cultivate. And when I look at it, I know you spell it

Janice Porter: 00:01:01

differently. And I'm curious to know why. I mean, I know it's,

Janice Porter: 00:01:04

it's, and I asked because I started to write it when I first

Janice Porter: 00:01:11

you know, wanted to know more. And of course, I just stopped

Janice Porter: 00:01:15

myself and look at what you had said. So was it by design? And

Janice Porter: 00:01:19

if so, is it a good thing? Or is it turning out to be

Janice Porter: 00:01:22

frustrating? And I do have to ask because I'm curious.

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:26

I appreciate the question. And not many

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:28

people, some people ask, and when they ask, they're like, Oh,

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:30

that makes so much sense. But no, it was intentional. I knew I

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:35

wanted a relatively neutral name for the company. But something

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:42

that was also not just like, some random word, I wanted it to

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:47

also be have some sort of meaning to it of what we are

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:50

really ultimately trying to accomplish. However, I also

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:53

wanted to make it personal. And so my initials are CEC. And so I

Caroline Crawford: 00:01:58

wanted so when I don't know the word cultivate came up, and I

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:01

realized that was something I could kind of manipulate a

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:04

little bit to make it unique, make it stand out a little bit

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:07

because there's there are other businesses with cultivate in it

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:11

and things like that. And so an eight is my favorite number. And

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:16

my birth month, so there are some there are some intention.

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:22

Yeah, personal little, like nuggets in there or easter eggs

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:24

in there as you if you will. But yeah, that's basically where it

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:29

came from. So

Janice Porter: 00:02:30

it wasn't like a marketing ploy, per se. No, no,

Janice Porter: 00:02:34

I

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:34

really wanted to be ever since started my

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:37

company, I wanted to be very intentional with it. And it

Caroline Crawford: 00:02:39

started with the name. Okay.

Janice Porter: 00:02:41

All right. Well, that's, that's good to know. And

Janice Porter: 00:02:43

I'm glad. And Carolyn has a podcast as well called the edge

Janice Porter: 00:02:47

effect. And I kind of liked that as well. But yeah, so just just

Janice Porter: 00:02:54

my curiosity. Okay, the other thing I was say comes out of

Janice Porter: 00:02:57

your, your bio, which I want to ask you, Caroline is on a

Janice Porter: 00:03:02

mission of supporting more business leaders to secure an

Janice Porter: 00:03:07

integrated marketing approach that goes beyond typical

Janice Porter: 00:03:11

marketing gimmicks. Alright, so. And I and the one thing I wanted

Janice Porter: 00:03:17

to say first, and didn't, you also let you want to address

Janice Porter: 00:03:21

challenges faced by businesses, such as limited resources, and

Janice Porter: 00:03:25

market pressures. So those things you you care about? And

Janice Porter: 00:03:30

you look for ways to help clients that are on a limited

Janice Porter: 00:03:35

budget? But what do you mean by an integrated marketing approach

Janice Porter: 00:03:40

that goes beyond the typical marketing gimmicks? Let's talk

Janice Porter: 00:03:43

about what you do and what was special about what you do?

Caroline Crawford: 00:03:47

Yeah, I, when I'm talking about an integrated

Caroline Crawford: 00:03:49

marketing approach, it is. I think when you look at the

Caroline Crawford: 00:03:54

industry and for anyone who's hired outside, particularly

Caroline Crawford: 00:03:58

outside marketing resources, obviously, because once they're

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:02

in house, they're way more integrated, of course, right.

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:05

But with outside marketing resources, there is a disconnect

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:09

that happens, understandably, so justifiably. So right, is

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:13

because it's a totally separate company, they have margins to

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:17

make, they have to apply what they do in a very structured

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:22

way. However, when you are working with a company that

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:25

potentially has limited in house marketing resources, even if

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:29

they have some, if it's not, if they don't have a dedicated

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:32

resource, for instance, and they're putting all their eggs

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:35

in, in this one agency basket, or even if they've got a couple,

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:38

it doesn't really matter at that point. But what starts to happen

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:42

is that there's a huge reliance on the internal team, to have

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:51

the agency truly support them in the way that they need to

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:55

because I think when when some when an agreement kind of first

Caroline Crawford: 00:04:58

comes into place. You know what you need, right? Like, that's

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:02

how you start the conversation with an agency, they're able to

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:05

tap into what you need. But when it comes to marketing, and I can

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:08

really only speak to marketing, of course, but I'm sure, maybe

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:11

it applies into some other bleeds into some other areas.

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:14

But marketing in particular is an area within a business where

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:19

you can have kind of cut and dry tasks, but the implementation of

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:24

them, there's so much behind the scenes that happens, you know,

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:28

you have one social media post, like three social media posts a

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:31

week, but what you're not seeing behind is how are those social

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:35

media posts getting created, there's research involved,

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:37

there's creative involved, there's rounds, feedback,

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:39

rounds, all these things. It's just an example, right? And so

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:44

when you're working with an outside resource, they have to

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:47

stick to what's in that retainer, right. And there's not

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:50

that much wiggle room outside of those specific deliverables,

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:54

because they have to guarantee something. But so what starts to

Caroline Crawford: 00:05:58

happen is, as the company grows or just evolves, their

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:02

priorities shift their leaves a little room to truly expand the

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:09

scope in a way that works and is flexible enough, that doesn't

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:14

essentially have to have another conversation about revising the

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:18

complete agreement, things like that. Again, not there's ways to

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:22

do it, there's, you know, not to agencies have found a way. But

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:25

what starts to happen, in particular, when when talking

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:28

about an integrated marketing approach is that there it is,

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:32

siloed off. And so their job is focused on whatever you've hired

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:37

them for. But because they aren't in the aware of all the

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:42

happenings in between, unless you are communicating with them

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:48

specifically about these things, they can actually support you to

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:52

the best of their ability in the way that you actually need to be

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:56

supported. Because you don't know what they don't know it's

Caroline Crawford: 00:06:59

not second, it's not second nature to share with them all

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:03

the happenings going on because you don't know you don't want to

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:06

bombard them with things. So our approach is a little bit

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:09

different. And that we actually embed ourselves into as though

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:12

we're almost like an in house team. And so that's how we are,

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:16

that's how we integrate and basically create this integrated

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:20

marketing approach to where we treat us like as you would as

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:24

though you just hired an in house marketer. Because that

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:28

way, we at least our team thrives better, when we are more

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:34

aware of what's going on, even if we don't have to act on it,

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:37

right? Even if we know that if we know something's in the

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:40

pipeline, or we know the mindset, or we know how you're

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:43

working, even if just this is how that people communicate

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:46

amongst themselves. This is how you, you're communicating to the

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:49

client, as much visibility as we have to how they naturally

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:52

operate, the more we have the ability to cater our strategies

Caroline Crawford: 00:07:57

and the services that they need to truly deliver them in the way

Caroline Crawford: 00:08:03

that works for them without adding an extra layer of

Caroline Crawford: 00:08:06

responsibility to them. And I think that's what happens a lot

Caroline Crawford: 00:08:09

of time with more traditional marketing agencies or structures

Caroline Crawford: 00:08:13

is that it requires someone dedicated to manage that agency

Caroline Crawford: 00:08:17

and to truly be, exactly and to truly have that kind of

Caroline Crawford: 00:08:21

collaborative, dynamic. So

Janice Porter: 00:08:24

even you know, when I think because I'm just,

Janice Porter: 00:08:26

you know, a solopreneur, but when I think of times when, when

Janice Porter: 00:08:31

I have thought about having someone do social media posts

Janice Porter: 00:08:35

for me, I can't let go because it's, if I'm not going to do it,

Janice Porter: 00:08:41

and someone's going to do it for me, they're not me. And so it

Janice Porter: 00:08:44

takes the time to make them understand my voice for them to

Janice Porter: 00:08:48

do it, I might as well just do it myself. And so on a bigger

Janice Porter: 00:08:51

scale, I kind of see what you're saying in the sense that you

Janice Porter: 00:08:54

really have to understand the client and you have to be the

Janice Porter: 00:08:58

client really, to speak their, their words to to be that

Janice Porter: 00:09:05

company. Right. And yeah, and

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:07

I think to what again, why it's like, it's

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:11

a little bit different is because traditional agency

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:15

dynamic is they are siloed off, they have to focus on one the,

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:20

the areas that you hire them to so PR as an example, right,

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:24

they're focused on that thing, however, to for them to be able

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:28

to do their job better and even like beyond, you know, to really

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:32

have it be so, so effective in a way that especially when you're

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:36

working with company that has limited resources, they have to

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:39

really have more of an understanding of what's going on

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:42

the moment that there's kind of a disconnect with what's

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:45

happening in the company, to what they're doing. You start to

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:49

see this like fracture in the dynamic and it doesn't and

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:52

things start to be a little bit less proactive. It's a lot more

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:56

reactive because they all they can really do at the end of the

Caroline Crawford: 00:09:59

day is risk font to whatever you're delivering to them and

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:02

saying, so with an integrated approach, and I appreciate the

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:06

example you use with social media, it's like, yes, you have

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:09

to kind of train people to know how you operate to know what you

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:13

like. And they can kind of shape it and mold it as you go.

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:18

Sometimes it may just simply evolve. But when you are

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:23

integrated with marketing, especially with limited

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:26

resources, you can be so much more strategic in how things are

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:30

done, and also more realistic about adoption, too. So adoption

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:34

with marketing for certain processes, is really critical,

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:38

right, like so you can have a process with someone who's doing

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:43

your social media posts, where you set up a process where you

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:46

feel comfortable with the tone that they're extracting from you

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:50

the knowledge that they're extracting from you, but they're

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:53

still doing some of that legwork. There is a process that

Caroline Crawford: 00:10:55

can be set up. But if there's a certain part of the process that

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:00

you're like, well, this doesn't work for me, because you prefer

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:02

to handwrite notes versus writing it in like a project

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:06

management system. This is a simple example. Right? But that

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:11

also needs to be taken into account, because you can it

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:13

doesn't matter, the scope of process you deliver, it doesn't

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:16

matter, the strategy doesn't matter anything. If you can't

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:19

actually, if you if no one's willing to adopt this process to

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:23

execute it. It won't get done. And so how do you essentially

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:31

build strategies that are easily adopt a bowl? And how do you

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:35

build strategies that don't feel like you have to completely

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:39

shift your mindset, which again, make it harder to adopt that

Caroline Crawford: 00:11:43

change?

Janice Porter: 00:11:44

Right. Okay, that makes sense. So you? How would

Janice Porter: 00:11:53

you say that sometimes you want to cut your marketing your

Janice Porter: 00:11:58

marketing efforts in half. And that can actually lead to

Janice Porter: 00:12:03

increased engagement and new leads. And it's funny, because I

Janice Porter: 00:12:07

think you're talking about some, I don't know if it's just social

Janice Porter: 00:12:10

media that you're talking about. But I just saw something

Janice Porter: 00:12:13

recently, because you know that I'm, I'm a LinkedIn trainer. So

Janice Porter: 00:12:16

I talked to people specifically about LinkedIn, not about the

Janice Porter: 00:12:20

other. I have nothing. I've no expertise in the other social

Janice Porter: 00:12:25

media platforms. But what I do understand is that on LinkedIn,

Janice Porter: 00:12:29

I find newbies will come over and they'll post post, post post

Janice Porter: 00:12:34

post, and it's ridiculous. But they haven't got their profile

Janice Porter: 00:12:37

up to snuff, and so on. But they think that more is better. And

Janice Porter: 00:12:41

it isn't necessarily, and I think this is maybe what you're

Janice Porter: 00:12:44

talking about, but maybe not so can you

Caroline Crawford: 00:12:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's along

Caroline Crawford: 00:12:49

the it's definitely along those lines. So what happens and

Caroline Crawford: 00:12:52

that's a great example, that's just in the realm of social

Caroline Crawford: 00:12:54

media. But what happens often, and social media is a perfect

Caroline Crawford: 00:12:58

example of this. But just speaking generally. So often,

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:03

when people are trying to go be aggressive with their marketing,

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:07

they just put themselves everywhere, they take advantage

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:09

of every single channel. So a lot, that's why like, often

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:14

you'll see companies with like, all the different social media

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:17

buttons at the end of their emails, or websites or whatever,

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:19

right? And then you go and you see you're like, Oh, that's

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:24

interesting. Or maybe their Twitter is lacking or their

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:28

LinkedIn, you know, it's just not, they're just copying and

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:33

pasting the things or not actually paying attention to the

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:36

actual platform. Again, just using that example on on

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:39

LinkedIn. Right? This happens a lot like and so I had this I

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:44

have one example where I had a client where she came to me, she

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:47

was so burnt out with marketing, she had no idea she was just so

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:51

frustrated. She was like, nothing's working, I'm doing

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:53

everything I'm doing all the things and she took all the

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:56

advice from all these other marketers and she just did

Caroline Crawford: 00:13:59

exactly that. And so what we started to do was really peel

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:04

back to the core of what is right for her business

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:07

obviously, set aside set aside the what's right for your

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:11

client, what is right for her business, what is and that means

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:13

what is right for her, she was solopreneur so in this sense, we

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:18

really scaled back about okay, well, these channels are not

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:21

performing well. However, let's just say okay, Twitter was not

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:25

performing well, but Facebook was doing okay, an email you

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:29

know, email is unnecessary channel but it wasn't performing

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:33

well. She was doing YouTube videos she was doing a blog or

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:38

article right all of the thing that's a lot. I like that's a

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:41

mouthful, right? And nothing was doing it and I and so I kept

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:45

asking her and drilling in like, what do you like doing? The only

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:50

thing she liked doing was writing those articles. So I

Caroline Crawford: 00:14:53

said stop everything. And basically, we essentially She

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:00

took the articles that she the one thing she likes doing,

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:03

that's where she puts the most time and energy into. And she

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:06

enjoys it. So it doesn't feel like a heavy lift, right. And I

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:11

taught her how to repurpose what she's doing and spread it into

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:15

intentional channels. So scale back the number of platforms she

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:18

was on, she wasn't even really on Twitter, she never logged

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:21

into it, she just had an automated service kind of

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:23

reposting links that were not necessary. So you're not

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:26

actually taking advantage of the platform itself, and being

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:30

social on social media. And that shows. And so it is along those

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:35

lines of if you are not paying attention to what you are

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:38

actually doing, if you're just doing it for the sake of doing

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:41

it, stop doing it, like there's no point you're not going to

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:45

less you put energy into it, you're not going to make it

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:50

perform better. So what she did was she readjusted her emails,

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:54

she adjust, she's scaled back on whatever social media platform

Caroline Crawford: 00:15:58

she just worked, did not feel natural to her. And we're not

Caroline Crawford: 00:16:01

overly aligned for the business that she was in. She focused on

Caroline Crawford: 00:16:05

the blogs and use that as sort of this driver to dictate, okay,

Caroline Crawford: 00:16:10

where should the blogs go? Right. And she did that within a

Caroline Crawford: 00:16:13

month, she cut her marketing efforts at an at least by 50%.

Caroline Crawford: 00:16:17

And she said she started to see more results. So that's an

Caroline Crawford: 00:16:21

incredible transformation. And she's happier about doing it,

Janice Porter: 00:16:25

of course. And there's so much actually in that

Janice Porter: 00:16:28

that example. So the first thing, and I didn't hear you ask

Janice Porter: 00:16:33

this question, but it has to be it was suddenly in there. So

Janice Porter: 00:16:37

first of all, you asked her what she liked to do best. And that's

Janice Porter: 00:16:40

so important. And and, you know, where do you feel most

Janice Porter: 00:16:43

comfortable is what I asked my clients? Or, you know, a great

Janice Porter: 00:16:47

question, where do you feel most comfortable? But the second

Janice Porter: 00:16:51

question, I think that's that's really important is because it

Janice Porter: 00:16:55

might mean a shift is where are your clients, your or your

Janice Porter: 00:16:59

prospects? Right? There's no point hanging out on Twitter, if

Janice Porter: 00:17:03

your clients are on are on Tik Tok. I mean, it doesn't make

Janice Porter: 00:17:06

sense to me. However, I think, you know, we all have a range of

Janice Porter: 00:17:12

clients and types of clients. But if we aren't comfortable on

Janice Porter: 00:17:17

that platform, there's no point that's the first thing. And so I

Janice Porter: 00:17:20

think that was the smartest thing to say to her. Then the

Janice Porter: 00:17:24

other thing that you said, I love that you then taught her

Janice Porter: 00:17:28

how to repurpose the blog posts and use snippets of them in

Janice Porter: 00:17:34

different ways that say, and that makes a lot of sense. And

Janice Porter: 00:17:38

then the third piece, it just rings true to me and actually

Janice Porter: 00:17:42

goes back to what you were talking about earlier, and I

Janice Porter: 00:17:44

wanted to ask you about is when but I'll start with here, where

Janice Porter: 00:17:49

she was doing. She was starting to get more traction, but she

Janice Porter: 00:17:53

said to you, none of it's working. I'm not you know, this

Janice Porter: 00:17:56

platform isn't working, the platform doesn't do anything,

Janice Porter: 00:18:00

you have to do the work. And so it's the work of posting, but

Janice Porter: 00:18:05

it's also and more importantly, the world of engaging right now

Janice Porter: 00:18:10

are you you're like you, you did mention putting up the things

Janice Porter: 00:18:14

and then nobody looks at them to engage to see she was obviously

Janice Porter: 00:18:18

looking originally because she wasn't getting any engagement.

Janice Porter: 00:18:21

But you it's very important that you in my estimation, whatever

Janice Porter: 00:18:27

you're doing that you pay attention, right, so that if

Janice Porter: 00:18:31

somebody doesn't engage, you start and continue that

Janice Porter: 00:18:34

conversation. That's how business happens through

Janice Porter: 00:18:37

building relationships, which is what I'm all about. Right? But

Janice Porter: 00:18:41

when you know, Jose gonna say, oh, when when you have a team

Janice Porter: 00:18:47

that goes to somebody as business and starts to do their

Janice Porter: 00:18:53

marketing and learn who they are and and build out the content

Janice Porter: 00:18:58

for them, let's say? Do you take the responsibility of teaching

Janice Porter: 00:19:03

them how to respond? How to engage? Or do you just assume

Janice Porter: 00:19:08

that they'll take that part over?

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:13

I think it is definitely dependent on the

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:16

client and the dynamic. The reason being is because you may

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:19

if let's just say you're engaging with someone who is a

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:22

social media community engagement expert, you want to

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:25

hear their advice, right? You may not know the best way,

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:27

right? So I think in that instance, it depends. However,

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:31

most importantly, it has to feel like you and kind of going back

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:34

to what you mentioned before of like, in sort of reiterating of

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:38

like there has to be this intention behind the things that

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:42

you do and that's with everything with marketing,

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:44

however, and that's why I asked what do you like doing because

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:48

you can make the argument that you could kind of justify

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:51

anything that the quote unquote clients will want, right? It's

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:55

like, oh, well, the clients are on Twitter. Yeah, okay. You're

Caroline Crawford: 00:19:57

gonna get some clients Who are on Twitter? Because that's just

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:01

the way the world works masters, right? So there is definitely

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:06

this balance. But when it comes to like actually engaging, you

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:11

have to think about what's actually realistic for you. And

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:14

again, it kind of goes back. So it does matter. How are your

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:16

clients engaging in the platform, for instance? So in

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:20

the case of LinkedIn, how do you how does your ideal client

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:25

engage on LinkedIn? Are they engaging on LinkedIn, because

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:27

that's also telling, but also, like, there are some CEOs, right

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:32

that don't even touch LinkedIn, they're on it, but they don't

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:34

touch it. They it's like a ghost town. So I know I can't, my

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:38

content isn't really going to reach them on LinkedIn, I have

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:40

to find for what, right? So I think when it comes to actually

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:44

hiring someone and getting someone on board and saying, how

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:47

do you engage, you still have to train them to say, this is how I

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:52

naturally operate, they should be looking at, and you should be

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:55

sending them emails about how you communicate with clients, I

Caroline Crawford: 00:20:59

actually always ask my clients send me sample emails, when

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:03

you're talking to clients, I want to know your tone, I want

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:05

to know how you're signing off, I want to know if there's, you

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:08

know, if there is always any improvement to be made to

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:11

certain communications, but I don't, at a certain point, you

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:15

don't want to mess with the natural flow, it's not going to,

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:18

you're not going to be able to adopt that. And so when it comes

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:21

to sort of, again, scaling back and and when you do hire, if you

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:26

do hire a team, it no matter what you're doing, you still

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:29

have to pay attention to what feels most natural to me. And

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:33

how do I interact with the clients, because if there's a

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:36

disconnect, that's going to be shown in the sales process, and

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:40

that could potentially rescue the sale or rescue a client who

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:43

signed on if there is a disconnect. So you want to keep

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:46

it and that's what develops a brand, right? People know me,

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:50

and they know that, who I am online, who I am on podcast, who

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:54

I am with in my client meetings, my family, all the things, it

Caroline Crawford: 00:21:58

actually does not change. Obviously, there's tone, there's

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:00

professional, you know, professionalism, but it doesn't

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:04

change. And so that's why I like keeping that consistency is so

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:07

important. And the more you can train someone else who's doing

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:10

it on your behalf, to learn you to know you to also believe in

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:15

you. And I think that's why that the agency or outsourced

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:20

relationship is just so important to nurture, and

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:24

develop that rapport. And the only way I know how to do it is

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:26

to like, like I said, just be all up in their business. And

Janice Porter: 00:22:31

that's really good. And it makes me think of

Janice Porter: 00:22:34

something though, because Okay, so the give me like three

Janice Porter: 00:22:39

examples, if you can of companies that you work with

Janice Porter: 00:22:43

just an example, it doesn't have to be the name of the company,

Janice Porter: 00:22:45

but like a solopreneur that does this or, you know, a company

Janice Porter: 00:22:50

that's, you know, that sells candles or like, just give me

Janice Porter: 00:22:53

three different examples. I just curious about something I'm

Janice Porter: 00:22:56

always curious

Caroline Crawford: 00:22:57

of, of how they

Janice Porter: 00:23:01

know, just just the three different types of

Janice Porter: 00:23:03

companies that are your best clients.

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:06

Gotcha. Okay. So we work with companies, we're

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:08

actually not, we don't, the verticals don't totally matter.

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:12

However, we are our like bread and butter service base, or

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:16

software as a service, essentially, anything that

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:18

really like relationships are have a heavy part of the

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:22

process. versus, you know, direct to consumer product, we

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:27

that's not necessarily our specialty, but when it comes to

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:30

who we serve, or types of companies that this is really

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:33

what the structure look like, looks like they either our need

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:38

to invest in marketing, but have no idea where to start, like the

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:41

questions are always around marketing, and they're either

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:45

lack of awareness, potentially, or just analysis paralysis. When

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:50

it comes to marketing we work

Janice Porter: 00:23:52

with why don't we do that? Get my products or to

Janice Porter: 00:23:54

get my exactly, so

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:55

they don't do anything? Yeah, exactly. So and

Caroline Crawford: 00:23:59

then it's companies that need more visibility on marketing or

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:02

are working with marketing, but it's just not working the way

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:04

that they want. And so that's why the actual industry or

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:08

specialty doesn't really matter. We really are focused on that

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:11

developing and optimizing that marketing function. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:24:14

so would you say that the people that you work

Janice Porter: 00:24:18

with range in age like from, you know, millennials to Baby

Janice Porter: 00:24:24

Boomers or, you know, like, are they do they run the gamut?

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:27

They say they do, I think we look at marketing

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:31

readiness, right? So if someone's not ready to actually

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:33

invest, there's, when you first start a business, this is

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:36

particularly the case of service based businesses, you do have to

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:41

do a lot of the legwork yourself in the sense of building those

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:44

relationships and I know you can speak deeply on this right. And

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:48

with your episode coming out a little bit coming out soon you

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:51

will you everyone here can hear it. But that said you do so

Caroline Crawford: 00:24:57

there is this kind of balance and I think that is oh Is the

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:00

balanced SERPs based businesses. However, eventually you want

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:03

your marketing to start working for you. And that's where you

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:06

need to start thinking about how do I want to invest in it? How

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:09

do I really want to, like be guided? And so when it comes to

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:14

the age range, I don't, it doesn't really matter, the ages

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:18

in particular, the specific age of the individuals, but moreso,

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:21

the age of their marketing. Okay, I've worked with companies

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:25

that have been around for 1530 years, and have never really

Caroline Crawford: 00:25:32

gone all in on their marketing, you know, okay,

Janice Porter: 00:25:34

well, I'm leading up to something here. So what

Janice Porter: 00:25:37

I'm looking at is, you're young, I know, you're you say you're

Janice Porter: 00:25:43

older than you look, because you look really young. But you know,

Janice Porter: 00:25:45

I'm gonna great skincare. It's all good. It's all good. But you

Janice Porter: 00:25:49

probably have some younger employees as well. Yes. Okay.

Janice Porter: 00:25:55

Yes. So I guess I've been into watching something lately that's

Janice Porter: 00:26:00

been doing the divide between the Gen Z then the, what is

Janice Porter: 00:26:05

next? What comes with?

Caroline Crawford: 00:26:07

I've lost track? Yeah. Baby Boomers.

Janice Porter: 00:26:11

Gen Y, I think millennials. There's, and then

Janice Porter: 00:26:16

Gen Z.

Caroline Crawford: 00:26:17

And then I think I thought Gen Y was there.

Caroline Crawford: 00:26:19

I don't know.

Janice Porter: 00:26:21

So my question, though, is, when you get someone

Janice Porter: 00:26:26

that that works for you, who's young? And even, like, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:26:33

totally brought up on on social media. Sure. And don't have

Janice Porter: 00:26:39

necessarily the same social skills. The older people have.

Janice Porter: 00:26:46

Yeah, I'm saying everybody that's older has social skills.

Janice Porter: 00:26:48

Don't get me wrong. But you're in the you're in the field of

Janice Porter: 00:26:51

marketing, you're sending a team of people into learn about

Janice Porter: 00:26:55

someone's business. So you got to find the right people. Am I

Janice Porter: 00:26:58

right? That can Oh, yeah, that can brought draw them out. And

Janice Porter: 00:27:02

so I would imagine, there's training involved in younger

Janice Porter: 00:27:06

people being able to do this, because it's not a natural

Janice Porter: 00:27:09

thing. I don't know, I just feel that like, I trained a young man

Janice Porter: 00:27:14

the other day on LinkedIn, who is a videographer, and he's just

Janice Porter: 00:27:20

come out of university, and he's starting his business. And a

Janice Porter: 00:27:25

friend asked me if I would help them. And you know, I have a

Janice Porter: 00:27:27

soft spot for students. And so I did. But I feel as though it's

Janice Porter: 00:27:33

difficult for that young person to talk to somebody who's

Janice Porter: 00:27:37

experienced, but not in video. Sure, he's got the video thing,

Janice Porter: 00:27:41

but it's just the conversation. It's the relationship again. So

Janice Porter: 00:27:46

it's just something that came to me. And I just wonder if you can

Janice Porter: 00:27:49

speak to that, if you know what I'm talking about.

Caroline Crawford: 00:27:52

That is to such a fabulous point. And no

Caroline Crawford: 00:27:55

one has ever asked that. And I And actually, I was just talking

Caroline Crawford: 00:27:58

about it today with a mentor who, essentially, when it comes

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:04

just to answer the first part of your question, but if you don't

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:06

mind, I have some more speak on it. The when it comes to

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:10

training the team, I've I'm very particular with how I

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:14

communicate. Because I, obviously my bread and butter is

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:20

communications, which is fair, but I, there is a level of

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:27

communication that I cater to, because that's how I built my

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:30

reputation while I was in house, and I let that bleed into my

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:34

business because I felt that it allowed it built a lot of trust

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:38

in the relationships I have with my clients and the people I

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:41

worked with, so that I had to train my team, you have to be

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:44

responsive. Obviously, this is we're all human, right? We're we

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:47

all have life, things to do. There is reason here. But you

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:51

have to be responsive, you have to be extremely respectful. And

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:54

you also even in my job descriptions, I put you have to

Caroline Crawford: 00:28:57

be compassionate and empathetic. Because people you don't know

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:00

what people are going through the clients that have come to

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:03

you I know when my client is basically taking out her stress

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:09

on us. And or, you know, it could be with any clients. And I

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:14

think because I dealt with that, while I was in house, I was able

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:17

to see, I was dealing with a lot of different personalities. So I

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:20

had to kind of adapt. And I think that's something that I

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:22

do, I've just always kind of been able to do just for my

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:27

life. But I think I've had to, I've had to take those who are

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:32

younger in their careers and say, and kind of teach them

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:36

essentially basic human principles in my mind, and at

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:41

least the way that I naturally operate. And then, you know, and

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:46

I did this at the beginning, and I do think it helped because I

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:48

never had to do it again is I'd see a response to something and

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:53

I'd say this is how we can take it to the next level in terms of

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:55

how we cater to our clients and really elevating that customer

Caroline Crawford: 00:29:59

experience. So how we just communicate in general. So I

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:02

think there was a lot, there definitely was a certain level

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:06

of training. I wasn't like so nitpicky, but I was like pay

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:10

attention, like when how I learned was I paid attention to

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:14

everyone who was communicating around me. And especially those

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:18

the bosses I had, and how did they communicate? How did you

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:21

know? Some were better than others? And things like that,

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:24

right? So I just absorbed and I also had to find my own way to

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:28

speak to because because there is that level of, you know, yes,

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:33

you want people to be individuals. But if especially

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:36

with a team, you have to have some sort of cohesive, dynamic,

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:40

right. And so there's a little bit of a balance there. But I

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:44

think that's incredibly important. And I think for

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:46

people, especially if you're reaching out to external just to

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:50

speak a little bit broadly, not just team related, related to

Caroline Crawford: 00:30:54

the team, but within this applies to client to audience

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:00

segmentation, essentially, you have to speak in the language

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:03

that people understand. So how I speak to marketers it, or

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:10

solopreneurs, for instance, who are younger, and their business

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:14

is very different than how I'm going to speak to the 30 plus

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:18

year old business see, right? If they and I look at how are what

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:25

are they going through? What's kind of Top of Mind what's sort

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:27

of their purview? So solopreneurs don't have as much

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:31

knowledge, and they're not thinking and it's diff in a

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:34

certain way that, for instance, that 30 plus year old business

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:39

CEO would think that's not to say either one is better than

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:43

the other. Excuse me, it's just different. So just to put it in

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:50

a concrete example, talking to someone who's in corporate, you

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:54

have to think what did they love the most, they love data, they

Caroline Crawford: 00:31:58

love logical explanations, you can't think in a, it's the

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:04

person, not the personal stuff, the emotional stuff is taken out

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:07

of it. Whereas when I'm speaking to a solopreneur, I'm a lot more

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:12

empathetic, I'm a lot more speaking to their person, like,

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:16

what they may be going through personally, I'm still infusing

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:19

that data and that logic, and vice versa, I still apply my

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:24

empathy to that other CEO that has, you know, has been in

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:28

business for 30 plus years. But I just apply it differently. And

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:31

so how I approach them is different, it's a little bit

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:33

more formal or sophisticated, or maybe it's a little bit more of

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:38

it that is totally dependent on the specific person. But I think

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:42

I hope that answers your question in the sense of there

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:45

is this, it doesn't matter the age you are now it matters who

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:49

you're speaking to. And it's always about that sort of client

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:52

first mindset of yes, it won. Can I speak to that person at

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:57

that level? There are some that like, they're like, I don't I

Caroline Crawford: 00:32:59

know, people who are like, I want nothing to do with

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:01

corporate. And they want, they don't talk that way. And that's

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:04

totally okay. And they don't also offer services for that.

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:08

Right. So I think it's just finding that balance and, and

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:12

seeing how can I infuse my personality and still

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:17

communicate authentically, but in a way that they do understand

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:21

in a way that they they can I can find that sort of common

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:25

ground with them. And again, I think, to what you do, right,

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:28

you your focus is helping people see how they can find common

Caroline Crawford: 00:33:32

ground with others. And I think that's so so incredible.

Janice Porter: 00:33:36

Yeah. And, you know, I think the reason that I

Janice Porter: 00:33:39

that I was drawn to you off the bat, Caroline, when we first

Janice Porter: 00:33:43

spoke is that you that you're you do come across as a really

Janice Porter: 00:33:47

good communicator, you're a good listener, you listen, and then

Janice Porter: 00:33:52

you explain Are you you know, you reiterate what someone has

Janice Porter: 00:33:57

said, and I think that as a leader, as a boss, for the

Janice Porter: 00:34:01

people on your team, that's a really good trait. And I think

Janice Porter: 00:34:04

that I'm just concerned that when I talk to a young person

Janice Porter: 00:34:09

who's grown up in this world of looking at their phone, they

Janice Porter: 00:34:13

don't look at anyone in the eye, and they don't really know how

Janice Porter: 00:34:16

to communicate, and I'm generalizing, I get that, but I

Janice Porter: 00:34:18

just thought that, that it was something do you as a, as a

Janice Porter: 00:34:23

boss, look at those traits and whether they'll work for you to

Janice Porter: 00:34:28

for that to send them out as your, you know, your

Janice Porter: 00:34:34

representative of a good communicator, right, because

Janice Porter: 00:34:37

they have to finance so I love that. Thank you so much. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:34:41

last question about your business. If you could change

Janice Porter: 00:34:45

one thing about the marketing industry, what would it be and

Janice Porter: 00:34:48

why? Ooh,

Caroline Crawford: 00:34:50

that's a great question. I think more

Caroline Crawford: 00:34:53

people need to say no to clients, I think and that's a

Caroline Crawford: 00:34:56

hard one because obviously they want the money. I I've, I've

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:00

been caught in this, this is not I'm like, I'm throwing myself in

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:03

the fire with them. Right? It's so every business owner, I think

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:06

can relate to that sort of sentiment. But the thing that I

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:11

have realized is that marketing, the businesses don't know what

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:17

they don't know. And so they lean on the marketers, and the

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:21

marketers are really good at marketing. And so they may be

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:25

able to accomplish what the business thinks that they need.

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:29

But what happens so often is that when they need it something

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:33

or like their needs evolve, or the second you start doing it,

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:38

some other things on earth, and that's, that's the natural

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:41

evolution. But what starts to happen is you end up becoming in

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:44

this kind of rigid, dynamic, and like I said, if there's a

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:47

disconnect between the company and the agency, a riff starts to

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:51

happen. And so but and I think a lot of the times, it happens

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:56

because the company was not ready for what the agency can

Caroline Crawford: 00:35:58

provide. And so because it mark, a lot of people look at

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:03

marketing, so siloed off, which, again, is why I take that

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:06

integrated approach, because we look at marketing from an entire

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:09

systemic level, we're looking at everything, we're teetering on

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:13

the lines of operations at that point, right. And so, but what

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:17

happens is that you hire an agency that, again, is siloed

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:21

off, they can handle several different services and call

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:24

themselves for full service, there are still gaps in what

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:27

they provide, because they're not looking at it from a sales

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:30

standpoint, they're not looking at it from an operations

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:33

standpoint, how it's impacting the internal team. And I think

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:37

they don't, they don't know, they don't know until they know,

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:40

and neither does the agency sometimes, right? Like they all

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:42

they can do is respond to potential need that they are

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:45

qualified to serve. Respect. Like, again, not, this is the

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:50

situation, but there is a gap in the way support, marketing

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:53

support is delivered. But there's also a gap in the way

Caroline Crawford: 00:36:56

businesses view marketing, they see it siloed off, they see it

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:00

as the bottom of the barrel source for the allocation for

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:05

budget, they have a mistrust in marketing. They just they just

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:09

don't see the value of it, or they don't also see the

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:13

challenge behind

Janice Porter: 00:37:14

it's like a bottomless pit for some people,

Janice Porter: 00:37:16

right. Yes, yes.

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:18

And so you get and that's what starts to

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:20

happen, right? They, they I think you get ad agencies who,

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:24

again, they want the revenue, that person saying, Okay, I'm

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:27

comfortable spending 8k on ads. There's not one sale that came

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:33

from those ads, because that company was not ready. But the

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:36

agency was not saying no to that company. Right.

Janice Porter: 00:37:38

Right. And I'm appalled at how much it costs

Janice Porter: 00:37:41

for, like, online ads and things like that these days. Yes. Yeah.

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:47

And on that no two ads are now becoming more

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:49

accessible. However, you still have to manage the ads. So

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:52

therefore, you have to pay someone to actually do the

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:54

strategy, manage the ads, update the budgets, all of things. But

Caroline Crawford: 00:37:58

then again, what happens is that marketing is very expensive,

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:02

because there's so much that goes into it so many resources.

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:05

You it's very hard to find generalists who can kind of do a

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:10

bunch of different things and mold things together and have it

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:12

be you know, and have it all be connected, which is why it's so

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:15

siloed off. But that is the problem in the industry. And

Janice Porter: 00:38:19

that's not what you do. You like to read

Janice Porter: 00:38:21

everything and take everything into Yes. Love it. Well, okay,

Janice Porter: 00:38:27

so just a couple of quick questions before so one is if

Janice Porter: 00:38:31

today, what's your favorite way to get information? Do you

Janice Porter: 00:38:35

listen to podcasts? Do you read real books? Do you listen to

Janice Porter: 00:38:39

audiobooks? Do you watch videos? What do you do?

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:42

Oh my gosh, I absorb it all I am. I am someone

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:47

that I'm a big self development junkie. So I'll read self

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:50

develop development books and kind of any of that type of

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:53

stuff. I listened I do listen to podcasts, some of which are more

Caroline Crawford: 00:38:56

entertaining than others. Each and then yeah, right but your

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:02

favorite right now I'm I'm really into the here to help pod

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:08

it's it's more of a parody podcast for free advice, but I

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:11

also love smartlace and armchair experts. Those are my favorites.

Janice Porter: 00:39:14

So smartlace and one that you may not be ready

Janice Porter: 00:39:19

for but my other favorite is wiser than me with Julia Louis

Janice Porter: 00:39:23

Dreyfus.

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:23

Oh, no. Okay. Yes, they do know. Yes, of

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:27

course. She

Janice Porter: 00:39:28

interviews women who are wiser than her and older

Janice Porter: 00:39:32

than her. Okay, so there's two seasons she's in second season

Janice Porter: 00:39:36

the first season she starts with Jane Fonda. It's like brilliant.

Janice Porter: 00:39:40

Oh,

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:41

amazing. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah, I'll

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:43

definitely check that out. So yeah, I love all those podcasts,

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:45

some of which I liked some more entertaining ones which is the

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:48

word of help once it's not a very serious either way, but I

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:53

do absorb when I'm on social media I'm I follow accounts that

Caroline Crawford: 00:39:56

I can learn from. I also am very observed and just try to absorb

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:01

all the things around me. So I, a lot of the times when I'm

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:03

creating strategies for clients and even for myself, I look for

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:07

inspiration at actually, for companies that are not at all in

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:12

the industry that the client is in but I look to see how I can

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:14

apply it you know, some principles that they do you or

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:18

just kind of study that and stuff like that. So I'm,

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:21

honestly the world is basically how I learn things. And I'm also

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:25

a chronic signer upper a free trial. So I always like to like,

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:30

see what what's happening. What tools can be syndrome

Janice Porter: 00:40:34

a little bit like me a little bit of the squirrel

Janice Porter: 00:40:36

syndrome, right?

Caroline Crawford: 00:40:38

Yes, exactly.

Janice Porter: 00:40:40

Because there's so much out there to learn and

Janice Porter: 00:40:42

know so much out there. You just don't know. You just have

Janice Porter: 00:40:45

sometimes have to stop. That's all. But anyway, so this has

Janice Porter: 00:40:48

been a delight. Thank you so much for the edge effect is

Janice Porter: 00:40:53

Caroline's podcast, you can find it on everywhere you guys. Yep.

Janice Porter: 00:40:58

And cultivate communications. It will be in the show notes. So

Janice Porter: 00:41:02

pay attention to how it's spelled. And go and visit her on

Janice Porter: 00:41:06

her website. Anything else you want to add last words?

Caroline Crawford: 00:41:11

I just want to say thank you so much for

Caroline Crawford: 00:41:12

having me if anyone is like I said, struggling with their

Caroline Crawford: 00:41:15

marketing and just has no idea where to start. Come to us. We

Caroline Crawford: 00:41:20

know exactly how to kind of get you out of that. Overwhelmed,

Caroline Crawford: 00:41:24

stuck feeling. So

Janice Porter: 00:41:26

sounds good. Thank you so much, Caroline. And

Janice Porter: 00:41:29

to my listeners. Thank you again for being here and remember to

Janice Porter: 00:41:33

stay connected and be remembered.

Caroline Crawford: 00:41:35

Thank you Janice.

Unknown: 00:41:36

You're welcome.