The Secret to Getting Clients from Your Content | RR321

Janice Porter: 00:00:02

Josh, hello. Hello and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter: 00:00:04

episode of relationships rule. Today I'm joined by Josh

Janice Porter: 00:00:09

Spector, out of Los Angeles, a content strategist consultant

Janice Porter: 00:00:13

and creator of the popular newsletter for the interested

Janice Porter: 00:00:18

Josh helps entrepreneurs and creators turn their content into

Janice Porter: 00:00:21

real client relationships, not by creating more, but by

Janice Porter: 00:00:25

creating smarter. In this conversation, I want to explore

Janice Porter: 00:00:29

with with Josh, how he builds trust through strategic content,

Janice Porter: 00:00:34

why traditional engagement metrics miss the mark, and what

Janice Porter: 00:00:37

it actually takes to attract clients through authentic

Janice Porter: 00:00:40

connection. Welcome to the show.

Josh Spector: 00:00:43

Thanks for having me. I make I am excited to be

Josh Spector: 00:00:45

here and talk about all those things that you just mentioned.

Janice Porter: 00:00:48

Well, we'll see where we go, because I tend to

Janice Porter: 00:00:50

go off on a side trip as

Josh Spector: 00:00:52

well. So do I. So it's all good. We'll find our

Josh Spector: 00:00:55

way

Janice Porter: 00:00:56

Perfect. Well, first of all, I like to start

Janice Porter: 00:00:58

right right in with the fact that your mantra, your LinkedIn

Janice Porter: 00:01:02

headline, on your website, you talk about clients from content

Janice Porter: 00:01:07

and how to make that happen. So what inspired you to approach

Janice Porter: 00:01:11

content with relationship building at the center, first of

Janice Porter: 00:01:14

all, so I

Josh Spector: 00:01:16

think, you know, I've been content is a funny

Josh Spector: 00:01:19

word, because it gets thrown around a lot, right? So, so to

Josh Spector: 00:01:22

me, content, and you know, can mean everything from social

Josh Spector: 00:01:27

media posts, newsletter, podcast, blog posts, but to be

Josh Spector: 00:01:32

honest, it can even be offline stuff, right? In some ways, if

Josh Spector: 00:01:35

you do public speaking, that's a different form of content, but,

Josh Spector: 00:01:39

but whatever it is that you know, what I found is people are

Josh Spector: 00:01:42

putting a lot of time and effort and resources into publishing

Josh Spector: 00:01:46

content in some way, okay? And usually that content is a tool

Josh Spector: 00:01:51

designed to help them accomplish a goal, right? Help them get

Josh Spector: 00:01:54

business, help them make sales, help them build relationships,

Josh Spector: 00:01:57

help them do something. And what I found is that most times,

Josh Spector: 00:02:01

they're not actually getting a big return on the time, effort

Josh Spector: 00:02:05

and resources they're putting into putting that content out

Josh Spector: 00:02:08

there, or they're not getting as big a return as they could. And

Josh Spector: 00:02:11

so what I am focused on is, how do you get a bigger return on

Josh Spector: 00:02:17

that content that you're putting out there? And what I found is,

Josh Spector: 00:02:20

in most cases, they don't need to be putting out more content.

Josh Spector: 00:02:24

They don't need to be putting, you know, more effort into it.

Josh Spector: 00:02:27

They're just missing some components, right? That it's not

Josh Spector: 00:02:31

aligned, it's not attracting the right people, or they're not

Josh Spector: 00:02:34

doing the right thing to sort of convert them to where they want

Josh Spector: 00:02:37

to go. They're just missing pieces. And I use this analogy

Josh Spector: 00:02:40

all the time, which is like a wind up toy, right? And you pull

Josh Spector: 00:02:44

the what, you pull the wind up toy, and it unleashes. And

Josh Spector: 00:02:48

that's the sort of effort you put into your content, right?

Josh Spector: 00:02:50

And it's going but it's just banging into the wall, right?

Josh Spector: 00:02:54

Yes. And that's, you know, that's what happens, I think, to

Josh Spector: 00:02:57

a lot of people, and they get very frustrated because they're

Josh Spector: 00:02:59

like, I'm posting on LinkedIn every day, and I'm publishing my

Josh Spector: 00:03:02

newsletter and, you know, and maybe they're getting some

Josh Spector: 00:03:04

likes, maybe they're getting some subscribers, maybe they're

Josh Spector: 00:03:06

getting some views, but they're not getting what they ultimately

Josh Spector: 00:03:10

want. And what I found is, with that wind up toy analogy, the

Josh Spector: 00:03:14

toy just needs to be turned. And if you turn the toy now that

Josh Spector: 00:03:18

same effort, it's moving forward, it's not banging into

Josh Spector: 00:03:21

the wall. So what I do is come and help people and go. Let me

Josh Spector: 00:03:24

help turn your car. Let me show you the pieces that you're

Josh Spector: 00:03:28

missing that will now enable you to get relationships, get leads,

Josh Spector: 00:03:32

get sales, grow your business, get, you know, make a bigger

Josh Spector: 00:03:35

impact. Whatever it is that you're hoping the content will

Josh Spector: 00:03:37

do for you. I come in and help you figure out how to make that

Josh Spector: 00:03:41

happen.

Janice Porter: 00:03:41

So where does that come from with you? What's,

Janice Porter: 00:03:44

what's, what's your background that I know you, you were in

Janice Porter: 00:03:50

journalism. I started out and then, yeah, so,

Josh Spector: 00:03:54

yeah. So I went to University of Maryland, majored

Josh Spector: 00:03:57

in journalism, moved to Los Angeles after school, started

Josh Spector: 00:04:03

working in the entertainment industry, worked for a PR

Josh Spector: 00:04:06

agency, then was a journalist at the Hollywood Reporter, then

Josh Spector: 00:04:09

started working in the internet and social media and marketing,

Josh Spector: 00:04:14

and worked at a movie studio, and eventually wound up running

Josh Spector: 00:04:17

digital media and marketing for the Academy of Motion Pictures

Josh Spector: 00:04:21

and the Oscars and

Janice Porter: 00:04:22

so a whole sort of something in there about

Janice Porter: 00:04:24

comedy as

Josh Spector: 00:04:25

well. Yes, comedy as well. So I, I started

Josh Spector: 00:04:29

producing comedy shows. I worked for a startup comedy website, so

Josh Spector: 00:04:34

this kind of combination of journalism and marketing and

Josh Spector: 00:04:38

business and entertainment and all of that. But really the

Josh Spector: 00:04:42

through line was sort of all of these things were, in one way or

Josh Spector: 00:04:45

another, rooted in the creation of content and then using that

Josh Spector: 00:04:49

content to help accomplish some sort of goal, right? So

Janice Porter: 00:04:54

when you come to sorry, did I Yeah, no, go ahead.

Janice Porter: 00:04:57

When you came to your own business, which I think was.

Janice Porter: 00:05:00

Around 2016 Yeah, you already had the confidence that you knew

Janice Porter: 00:05:06

how to do this, even though Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:05:09

knew Yeah, I had done it and I had done it for

Josh Spector: 00:05:12

it's interesting, because I had the confidence that I knew how

Josh Spector: 00:05:14

to do it, but I also had done it for sort of three distinctly

Josh Spector: 00:05:19

different types of situations. So on the one hand, I had done

Josh Spector: 00:05:23

it for myself. I had my first blog, I think was in 1999 like,

Josh Spector: 00:05:28

I had grown an audience. I had grown audiences. I had started a

Josh Spector: 00:05:31

million blogs, million newsletters. I'd start and stop.

Josh Spector: 00:05:33

This is on the side from your work. Yeah, on the side, not

Josh Spector: 00:05:36

even really as, like, a job, but like, you know, all that kind of

Josh Spector: 00:05:39

stuff. And eventually, the way I wound up at the startup comedy

Josh Spector: 00:05:43

website was they acquired my blog. I had a comedy blog, and

Josh Spector: 00:05:46

they acquired me, and it came in and, you know, I started running

Josh Spector: 00:05:50

content marketing for them. But so I had been doing a lot for

Josh Spector: 00:05:54

myself on the side, and then also as a business. At some

Josh Spector: 00:05:58

point, I've been doing all this stuff, and I had built a

Josh Spector: 00:06:01

business based on sort of doing that, putting out content and

Josh Spector: 00:06:05

attracting people and turning it into clients and different kinds

Josh Spector: 00:06:08

of things like that. I had also done it for and helped other

Josh Spector: 00:06:15

people do it who were small, an open mic comedian who has no

Josh Spector: 00:06:20

audience and no money. And how does he, you know, again, this

Josh Spector: 00:06:23

is years ago, but how does he use MySpace? How does he use

Josh Spector: 00:06:26

Facebook? How does he create opportunities, you know, small

Josh Spector: 00:06:30

solopreneur indiv, you know, entrepreneur types, small

Josh Spector: 00:06:33

businesses, stuff, organization stuff, here and there, right?

Josh Spector: 00:06:37

So, I had seen it work for me. I had seen it work for these sort

Josh Spector: 00:06:41

of small clients, I guess, for lack of a better term. And then

Josh Spector: 00:06:46

I had done it for major movie studios, and I did it for the

Josh Spector: 00:06:50

Oscars, the biggest entertainment show in the world.

Josh Spector: 00:06:52

And what was interesting to me, and this was all kind of again,

Josh Spector: 00:06:56

before going out on my own, so I was confident that I could do

Josh Spector: 00:07:00

it. I was confident that I could do it for a variety of different

Josh Spector: 00:07:03

types of people, and what I had really learned was the

Josh Spector: 00:07:09

principles were the same that what I was doing with for an

Josh Spector: 00:07:15

open mic comedian with no money and no audience was actually The

Josh Spector: 00:07:19

same approach that I was using for the Oscars, with a massive

Josh Spector: 00:07:25

budget and millions of followers and a TV network and all that,

Josh Spector: 00:07:31

all that stuff, right? And so that not only gave me the

Josh Spector: 00:07:33

confidence that I could do it, but also gave me the confidence

Josh Spector: 00:07:36

in the realization that there are approaches that can help you

Josh Spector: 00:07:41

get results and all different kinds of results, right? Whether

Josh Spector: 00:07:44

it's driving ratings for a TV show is very different than

Josh Spector: 00:07:48

getting a client for your business right, right? So, yes,

Josh Spector: 00:07:54

okay, so

Janice Porter: 00:07:55

can you walk me through the difference between

Janice Porter: 00:08:00

content that builds trust and content that just gets clicks,

Josh Spector: 00:08:04

yeah, so, so let me I'm going to approach it

Josh Spector: 00:08:09

slightly different. So I'm a big believer in if you want to get

Josh Spector: 00:08:15

something out of if you want to get something out of your

Josh Spector: 00:08:18

content, you have a goal you ultimately want to accomplish.

Josh Spector: 00:08:20

Forget getting clicks or likes or whatever, right? The vanity

Josh Spector: 00:08:24

metrics, because people get trapped in the metrics that the

Josh Spector: 00:08:28

let's talk about social media, for example, the metrics that

Josh Spector: 00:08:31

the social media platforms want you to optimize for are the

Josh Spector: 00:08:34

metrics that are best for them. They're not necessarily best for

Josh Spector: 00:08:38

you.

Janice Porter: 00:08:38

Oh, is that like going to Vegas and playing for

Janice Porter: 00:08:40

the house, right? Exactly, the house at the best odds.

Josh Spector: 00:08:43

Okay, so, right, so, and part of that is because

Josh Spector: 00:08:47

they have their own purposes and their own businesses to run, but

Josh Spector: 00:08:50

another part of that is simply they can't actually track what

Josh Spector: 00:08:53

matters most to you. Okay, LinkedIn has no idea if I'm

Josh Spector: 00:08:56

getting clients from LinkedIn, right? They don't know, right?

Josh Spector: 00:09:00

So they just know, oh, that post got likes or comments or

Josh Spector: 00:09:03

whatever. So if you want to get the things that really matter,

Josh Spector: 00:09:08

the first thing you need to do is you need to produce valuable

Josh Spector: 00:09:11

content. And when I say valuable content, people always ask me.

Josh Spector: 00:09:16

They go, Yeah, but okay, what's valuable? And I say valuable

Josh Spector: 00:09:19

means that there's a transformation. It helps people

Josh Spector: 00:09:23

get from point A to point B, which also means it's

Josh Spector: 00:09:26

actionable. It means, when they read my LinkedIn post at the

Josh Spector: 00:09:30

end, they can do something that they can't couldn't do before.

Josh Spector: 00:09:34

That is really different than interesting content.

Janice Porter: 00:09:37

Or you give them a tool to go and use. Right?

Janice Porter: 00:09:40

Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:09:41

and what a lot of people do is they want to post

Josh Spector: 00:09:45

whether they realize they're doing this or not. They're

Josh Spector: 00:09:48

trying to post interesting content. Oh, that's an

Josh Spector: 00:09:52

interesting opinion about this. That's an interesting story

Josh Spector: 00:09:55

about that. And that may get likes and it may get them

Josh Spector: 00:09:59

followed. Followers. It's unlikely to get them business.

Josh Spector: 00:10:03

It's unlikely to get them leads. It's unlikely to get them

Josh Spector: 00:10:06

relationships. And that's a huge difference. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:10:11

God, okay, so if you write this article or this

Janice Porter: 00:10:15

post, and it's got it's got its story, and it's got interesting

Janice Porter: 00:10:19

facts of into it, and then if you turn it into that teachable

Janice Porter: 00:10:23

moment, or the thing they can do that that is, is illustrating,

Janice Porter: 00:10:29

is that better, or is that still the same as what you're saying?

Josh Spector: 00:10:33

Well, so there's a lot of different ways. There's

Josh Spector: 00:10:35

nothing wrong with telling stories and there's nothing

Josh Spector: 00:10:37

wrong with being interesting, like all of that is, all of that

Josh Spector: 00:10:40

is good for me. The question I always ask is, like, again, kind

Josh Spector: 00:10:45

of what? What can someone do after consuming this content

Josh Spector: 00:10:48

that they couldn't do before? Because that's a level above,

Josh Spector: 00:10:53

oh, that was interesting. So I can, I can tell an interesting

Josh Spector: 00:10:57

story, and I can capture someone's attention, and all of

Josh Spector: 00:11:01

that, but there's nothing for someone to do afterwards. It

Josh Spector: 00:11:06

doesn't necessarily again. It can. I'm not saying you can't

Josh Spector: 00:11:10

get clients and stuff that way, but it doesn't necessarily make

Josh Spector: 00:11:14

them I think you had mentioned trust before, right? It doesn't

Josh Spector: 00:11:19

necessarily make them trust me more, to the point that, like,

Josh Spector: 00:11:23

oh, I want to hire him or whatever. Like, the reaction

Josh Spector: 00:11:26

that people have to my content is because they're like, Oh, my

Josh Spector: 00:11:29

God, he's telling me and showing me exactly how he's doing stuff

Josh Spector: 00:11:34

and how I can do stuff. And so they can read my post, go, do

Josh Spector: 00:11:37

the thing, have some success from it, and go, Wow, that

Josh Spector: 00:11:40

worked. What else can this guy help me do?

Janice Porter: 00:11:44

Okay, I looked sideways because I printed

Janice Porter: 00:11:46

something off and then I left it on. Oh, no problem. Just give me

Janice Porter: 00:11:49

one second. Yeah, no problem. I just thought that this was

Janice Porter: 00:11:54

fascinating, this post that you did um the other day, and I

Janice Porter: 00:11:58

wanted to save it so it was the post that says, Do you know what

Janice Porter: 00:12:04

happens if you DM everyone who likes your LinkedIn posts I do

Janice Porter: 00:12:09

because I've done it for the last month, and it goes on to

Janice Porter: 00:12:11

talk more about it. And I think I experienced that initially

Janice Porter: 00:12:16

from you, which I thought was, I mean, I teach LinkedIn, right?

Janice Porter: 00:12:19

And I teach, I teach little nuances sometimes that people

Janice Porter: 00:12:25

haven't thought of, and one of them being that if, if you look

Janice Porter: 00:12:30

at the people who have viewed your profile, that gives you

Janice Porter: 00:12:33

opportunity to go in and message them and say, Hey, I see you

Janice Porter: 00:12:38

looked at my profile. Is, you know, not sure, you know how you

Janice Porter: 00:12:41

found me, but is there something I can support you with, or

Janice Porter: 00:12:44

something like that? And this was a similar thing in a way,

Janice Porter: 00:12:47

right? And you did it with me, so I experienced it, and I

Janice Porter: 00:12:51

thought, wow. And this is what I think, this email was about,

Janice Porter: 00:12:54

right? Or this, um, post was about,

Josh Spector: 00:12:56

yeah, but yeah. And I think, and that's a good

Josh Spector: 00:12:58

example, because I think, like, Look, I'm not the only, I mean,

Josh Spector: 00:13:01

look, you said even yourself. I'm not the only person in the

Josh Spector: 00:13:03

world that shares advice that says, hey, you can direct

Josh Spector: 00:13:06

message people who are checking out your stuff and whatever. But

Josh Spector: 00:13:10

the difference is that that post, maybe you can link to it

Josh Spector: 00:13:13

in the show notes or whatever. But that, but that post, the

Josh Spector: 00:13:17

level of specificity and actionable, actionableness in

Josh Spector: 00:13:22

it. I don't just say, hey, go DM these people. And hey, I'm doing

Josh Spector: 00:13:26

this thing, and here's exactly what I'm getting. I show you

Josh Spector: 00:13:29

exactly the message I'm sending. I tell people exactly how to

Josh Spector: 00:13:33

adapt it for themselves, right? And that when you do that, that

Josh Spector: 00:13:38

level of specific specificity, that level of sort of action

Josh Spector: 00:13:43

that people can take, and then combined with, Hey, here's the

Josh Spector: 00:13:47

thing I'm doing, and here's the exact results that I'm getting

Josh Spector: 00:13:50

that is really different than what most people do, what most

Josh Spector: 00:13:53

people would do. Let's say someone is doing the exact same

Josh Spector: 00:13:56

thing I was doing. They're like, I'm going to create content

Josh Spector: 00:13:58

about this thing. Here's what they would most likely do. They

Josh Spector: 00:14:01

would write a post saying some version of like, Yeah, you

Josh Spector: 00:14:04

should DM people, and I'm having a lot of success with it, and

Josh Spector: 00:14:08

you should try it, and it's great. What they wouldn't do is

Josh Spector: 00:14:12

show you exactly what they're sending, because this is another

Josh Spector: 00:14:15

key thing about content. I'm a believer in that you give all

Josh Spector: 00:14:18

the secrets out for free. I was just gonna say the same. You

Josh Spector: 00:14:21

don't hold any of it back, right? Most people won't do

Josh Spector: 00:14:26

that. The other thing they won't do is they won't be specific. I

Josh Spector: 00:14:30

forget what number I said in that, but I think I said 27

Josh Spector: 00:14:32

clients or whatever. I don't remember what I said, but some

Josh Spector: 00:14:36

specific number, most people won't do that. They would rather

Josh Spector: 00:14:42

just sort of generally say, like, Oh, I've gotten a ton of

Josh Spector: 00:14:45

clients, you know, because they're worried that, well, some

Josh Spector: 00:14:47

people are going to think 27 doesn't seem like a lot, or for

Josh Spector: 00:14:51

whatever reason, right? They just don't want to, they don't

Josh Spector: 00:14:53

want to go there. They don't want to reveal the secrets. And

Josh Spector: 00:14:56

they worry that if they do share that level of. Specificity. Oh,

Josh Spector: 00:15:01

I hear this all the time, like, Well, why would someone hire me?

Josh Spector: 00:15:03

Then I just told them what to do. And my take on that is,

Josh Spector: 00:15:07

again, I believe that you should put everything out there. I

Josh Spector: 00:15:09

believe that putting it out there is what builds trust and

Josh Spector: 00:15:13

what attracts people and what makes you unique. And the other

Josh Spector: 00:15:18

thing is to me, whenever anyone says that to me. I actually said

Josh Spector: 00:15:20

this to someone the other day because they were saying they

Josh Spector: 00:15:23

were hesitating to sort of put some specifics out about

Josh Spector: 00:15:27

something that they were doing. And I said, you're basically

Josh Spector: 00:15:30

asking me if I recommend you publish mediocre content, or at

Josh Spector: 00:15:35

least more mediocre than what you potentially could do. Like I

Josh Spector: 00:15:39

understand. I get that, maybe I understand why people don't want

Josh Spector: 00:15:42

to reveal all the secrets, but I believe that it's a mistake. And

Josh Spector: 00:15:48

I think one of the reasons my content has always attracted

Josh Spector: 00:15:52

business is because I don't hold that I don't hold that stuff

Josh Spector: 00:15:55

back and it breaks through, because most people will hold it

Josh Spector: 00:15:58

back. Most people are not going to show you that level of

Janice Porter: 00:16:01

well, because they're coming from lack they're

Janice Porter: 00:16:04

coming from limited beliefs as well. And I think that if you do

Janice Porter: 00:16:10

give value, but you and you share it willingly, people can

Janice Porter: 00:16:14

feel that, and they know that. Well, if he's telling me all of

Janice Porter: 00:16:18

this, and I haven't paid him, what more can I get, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:16:22

through paying him and being part of his community.

Josh Spector: 00:16:25

And as you know, from talking about relationships

Josh Spector: 00:16:27

all the time like it's Trust is the key component to all of

Josh Spector: 00:16:30

that. It totally they trust you much more. And ultimately,

Josh Spector: 00:16:34

that's what you want. You want the you know, you want the

Josh Spector: 00:16:37

relationships, because that's what's ultimately going to lead

Josh Spector: 00:16:40

to the sales and customers and clients and all that kind of

Josh Spector: 00:16:43

stuff, right? So to me, it's like, you know, it's a fast

Josh Spector: 00:16:46

track to trust, which is a fast track to relationship, which is

Josh Spector: 00:16:49

a fast track to Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:16:51

so I wanted to go one direction, but when we

Janice Porter: 00:16:54

started talking before the before we went on air, we

Janice Porter: 00:16:58

started talking about something else that I think is really

Janice Porter: 00:17:00

interesting. So we'll see how much time we we can get both in.

Janice Porter: 00:17:03

But we were talking about podcasts, and I have a podcast,

Janice Porter: 00:17:07

you're on it, and I usually, most often, have guests. Usually

Janice Porter: 00:17:11

99% of the time I have guests. I love talking to people. I'm

Janice Porter: 00:17:16

curious. I enjoy doing my podcast, but lately, I've been

Janice Porter: 00:17:21

asking if it's serving me this way, and you brought up a super

Janice Porter: 00:17:24

point about your podcast. So I want to talk about that a little

Janice Porter: 00:17:28

bit, because I might rethink my thinking, and it might, it might

Janice Porter: 00:17:32

be a way to we also talked about repurposing content, which you

Janice Porter: 00:17:37

do brilliantly, and I don't do very well at all, and and that

Janice Porter: 00:17:42

might be a way to do it, because I was listening on my walk

Janice Porter: 00:17:44

yesterday to a couple of your podcasts and episodes, and one

Janice Porter: 00:17:49

of them was you answering questions of three different

Janice Porter: 00:17:55

people that were, I guess, part of your community, and they had

Janice Porter: 00:18:00

been pre set up, probably, or, or were

Josh Spector: 00:18:06

sorry, yeah, it's, it's part in my membership, I do

Josh Spector: 00:18:08

a monthly Office Hours call where people can come in and ask

Josh Spector: 00:18:11

me questions. So those are three of the questions that I was

Josh Spector: 00:18:13

asked on one of those

Janice Porter: 00:18:14

calls, right? So you repurposed again in a way,

Janice Porter: 00:18:17

right? Yeah. And yet, I think you added little bits to it

Janice Porter: 00:18:21

along

Josh Spector: 00:18:21

Yeah, add a little intro yeah to each

Janice Porter: 00:18:23

one. So you said something to me before the

Janice Porter: 00:18:27

before we went on air, about the difference between my podcast,

Janice Porter: 00:18:32

or most podcasts that have interview guests and yours. Can

Janice Porter: 00:18:34

you share that with my audience? Because, yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:18:36

so, so my so my podcast, whereas most people,

Josh Spector: 00:18:40

the kind of standard podcast is you start a show, you invite

Josh Spector: 00:18:44

people on, you interview them, you try to get guests that are

Josh Spector: 00:18:49

smart, interesting, maybe have an audience that they hope being

Josh Spector: 00:18:53

that they'll help you grow your show. And all of you have no no

Josh Spector: 00:18:57

guarantee they will right, which you have Right exactly. So

Josh Spector: 00:19:01

that's the kind of standard thing, and that's fine. And I'm

Josh Spector: 00:19:04

gonna, I'm gonna sort of back into, back into this a second,

Josh Spector: 00:19:07

but just so people know the format of my show, which is

Josh Spector: 00:19:09

called clients from content. The majority of the episodes is a

Josh Spector: 00:19:14

guest comes on, they ask me three questions. It's basically

Josh Spector: 00:19:17

like, I give them free coaching and record it. Essentially, Hey,

Josh Spector: 00:19:21

come on now you're sharing it with everybody, right? And then

Josh Spector: 00:19:23

I share it with everybody. It is very much once in a while, I'll

Josh Spector: 00:19:28

do what I call flip the script episode, where I will bring

Josh Spector: 00:19:30

someone on and I'll interview them, and sort of do a more

Josh Spector: 00:19:33

traditional thing, but the vast majority of the episodes are

Josh Spector: 00:19:37

people asking me, me questions. And the reason I do that, and I

Josh Spector: 00:19:41

think this is the key, and this is true of podcasts, but it's

Josh Spector: 00:19:44

true of any kind of content, right? The key is that you want

Josh Spector: 00:19:49

to figure out for yourself, like, what am I? What do I want

Josh Spector: 00:19:52

to get out of this? What is the goal, whether it's a podcast,

Josh Spector: 00:19:55

whether it's a newsletter, whatever, right? So for me, when

Josh Spector: 00:19:58

I started a podcast, right? Right? My goal for the podcast

Josh Spector: 00:20:02

was, I want something that is going to get me essentially,

Josh Spector: 00:20:05

more customers, more clients, more paid members, more

Josh Spector: 00:20:08

whatever. Okay, so if you start with that in mind, then I go,

Josh Spector: 00:20:12

Okay, well, what do I need to do to optimize for that? This

Josh Spector: 00:20:16

podcast needs to be a showcase for my expertise, right? Not a

Josh Spector: 00:20:21

showcase for the expertise of the person that I'm like, boom,

Josh Spector: 00:20:25

yeah, right. So that means, how do I showcase my expertise? Now?

Josh Spector: 00:20:29

Again, there's a million different ways to do this right

Josh Spector: 00:20:31

now, I could it. Could just be me solo talking about whatever.

Josh Spector: 00:20:34

I don't have to do anything I like the format of, well, again,

Josh Spector: 00:20:38

in part because I was already doing coaching and stuff. And I

Josh Spector: 00:20:41

was like, I could just record these, and that could be the

Josh Spector: 00:20:43

podcast, but it really is a showcase for literally, like, if

Josh Spector: 00:20:46

you book a coaching call with me, now you can see exactly what

Josh Spector: 00:20:49

that's going to be like. If you join my membership, you can see

Josh Spector: 00:20:52

exactly what an office hours call is going to be like. So

Josh Spector: 00:20:56

that is, this is what I mean by being strategic in your content.

Josh Spector: 00:21:00

Now that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with

Josh Spector: 00:21:03

doing it other ways, and you also might have other goals. So

Josh Spector: 00:21:06

I'll give you an example of like, I could have decided that,

Josh Spector: 00:21:11

okay, the goal for my podcast is to grow my audience. By the way,

Josh Spector: 00:21:16

my podcast is fine, and it does well, and I get whatever, but

Josh Spector: 00:21:20

it's not. It's a tiny fraction of my newsletter audience. Like

Josh Spector: 00:21:23

I have 32,000 newsletter subscribers, I don't get 30,000

Josh Spector: 00:21:27

downloads an episode, not even close to it, right? And you

Josh Spector: 00:21:31

know, my podcast is good, and people love it, and I've done it

Josh Spector: 00:21:33

for a couple of years, it's not, it grows slowly. It's not really

Josh Spector: 00:21:39

growing my audience. If my goal was I want to start a podcast to

Josh Spector: 00:21:43

attract new people and build an audience, I would have had a

Josh Spector: 00:21:46

different format of show, because who cares about me

Josh Spector: 00:21:50

coaching people is people who kind of know me a little bit

Josh Spector: 00:21:53

right, right? So if I was going the other way, and I was like,

Josh Spector: 00:21:57

you know, I just want more exposure. I want more awareness.

Josh Spector: 00:22:00

I want to bring more people in, and then, you know, which is,

Josh Spector: 00:22:03

again, a fine, a fine approach and a fine way to do it. It

Josh Spector: 00:22:06

would have been a totally different show. I don't know.

Josh Spector: 00:22:08

Maybe I would have tried to tap into Hollywood relationships and

Josh Spector: 00:22:11

just talk to Holly, you know, I don't know what I would have

Josh Spector: 00:22:13

done, but I would have done, but I know it would have been

Josh Spector: 00:22:15

different, right? Another potential goal could have been,

Josh Spector: 00:22:18

you know, and I tell people to do this all the time, right?

Josh Spector: 00:22:21

There's some people where I've talked to people where it's

Josh Spector: 00:22:25

like, their goal is to get more clients. They work in a very

Josh Spector: 00:22:29

sort of specific niche, whatever. They are never going

Josh Spector: 00:22:32

to have a big podcast no matter what, because it's just a narrow

Josh Spector: 00:22:35

topic, a narrow niche. But I was like, your goal is to get

Josh Spector: 00:22:38

clients. So forget the listeners. Let's invite everyone

Josh Spector: 00:22:42

you want to be a potential client to be a guest on your

Josh Spector: 00:22:45

show. And it's as opposed to, I can't get a meeting with this

Josh Spector: 00:22:49

person, but I can get them to come on my podcast and start a

Josh Spector: 00:22:53

relationship and then back into them becoming clients. So in

Josh Spector: 00:22:58

that case, having a show where you're primarily interviewing

Josh Spector: 00:23:01

other people. If, in your mind, you know the other people are

Josh Spector: 00:23:04

people that you want to ultimately hire you. Makes a lot

Josh Spector: 00:23:07

of sense. And by the way, every decision that then stems from

Josh Spector: 00:23:11

there. You don't really care how many people are listening to the

Josh Spector: 00:23:14

show, because the show is just an excuse to have an hour long

Josh Spector: 00:23:18

conversation with somebody. Well, it's true

Janice Porter: 00:23:20

because that's true, because I know I'm

Josh Spector: 00:23:23

or maybe you just want to learn from people or

Josh Spector: 00:23:25

whatever like again, right different ways to do it. Well,

Josh Spector: 00:23:28

I'm

Janice Porter: 00:23:28

never, I know I'm never. At a shortage for guests

Janice Porter: 00:23:32

on my podcast, they come to me now. I've been doing it long

Janice Porter: 00:23:35

enough. However, if I am doing outreach on LinkedIn or or even

Janice Porter: 00:23:40

if I'm not doing outreach on LinkedIn, I they come to me just

Janice Porter: 00:23:44

to connect, and I see someone I think could be a potential

Janice Porter: 00:23:48

client, and it makes sense that we have the same values. I could

Janice Porter: 00:23:53

invite them on my podcast. Watch out now. Then, right then. That

Janice Porter: 00:23:59

is a good starting point for me. So it does sometimes work

Janice Porter: 00:24:02

towards other things. So I see it can

Josh Spector: 00:24:04

work. It's just I'm a big fan of again. And I

Josh Spector: 00:24:07

say every, it's funny, every coaching call I have with

Josh Spector: 00:24:09

anybody, I always start one of the first things I say to them

Josh Spector: 00:24:13

is there is no one right path. You can succeed however you

Josh Spector: 00:24:17

want. My job is not to tell you to do it this way or to go this

Josh Spector: 00:24:21

way. My job is we're going to have this conversation. You're

Josh Spector: 00:24:25

going to tell me what you want to happen. We're going to pick a

Josh Spector: 00:24:28

path that you want to go, and we're going to figure out how to

Josh Spector: 00:24:30

make that path right. Yeah, that's that. That's it, right? I

Josh Spector: 00:24:35

come

Janice Porter: 00:24:36

more than a coach. Yeah, people get

Josh Spector: 00:24:39

people get stuck, sort of, and they get paralyzed

Josh Spector: 00:24:41

looking for like there is no this is what your podcast should

Josh Spector: 00:24:45

be, right, right? It's what do you want out of your podcast.

Josh Spector: 00:24:49

And now let's figure out the best format to help you get

Josh Spector: 00:24:52

that. Okay, that's

Janice Porter: 00:24:53

very good. Okay, let's flip the not flip the

Janice Porter: 00:24:55

script. Let's talk newsletters now, because I want to make sure

Janice Porter: 00:24:58

I get this in. How can a single. Email build a relationship

Janice Porter: 00:25:01

strong enough to convert into business. So the newsletter, how

Janice Porter: 00:25:06

often does yours go out? I think it's twice a week, isn't

Josh Spector: 00:25:08

it? No, so mine's now daily. So let me, let me

Josh Spector: 00:25:11

start where I started. Because again, my and this is, I think,

Josh Spector: 00:25:14

another thing that you'll that maybe will, you'll pick up with

Josh Spector: 00:25:17

my stuff. I'm a big believer in the importance of formats. I'm

Josh Spector: 00:25:21

also a big believer in unique formats, if possible. My podcast

Josh Spector: 00:25:25

is a different format than most people's podcast. My newsletter

Josh Spector: 00:25:29

is a different format than most people's newsletter. My

Josh Spector: 00:25:33

membership is a different format than most people's membership.

Josh Spector: 00:25:36

So So for my newsletter, here's where it started. It started

Josh Spector: 00:25:39

well, I had multiple newsletters years ago, but forget that. My

Josh Spector: 00:25:42

current newsletter for the interested started in 2016 so

Josh Spector: 00:25:46

about nine years ago, and it was a weekly newsletter. Every

Josh Spector: 00:25:53

Sunday, I sent a sort of List of 10 things, 10 links, usually one

Josh Spector: 00:25:59

or two of them were links to things that I had created, a

Josh Spector: 00:26:01

blog post of what I wasn't doing, video, didn't have a

Josh Spector: 00:26:03

podcast, any of that back then. So it was usually like a link to

Josh Spector: 00:26:07

a blog post I had created and then curated links to a bunch of

Josh Spector: 00:26:10

other stuff I found with little summaries of it, nothing

Josh Spector: 00:26:13

revolutionary, anything like that, and but I published it

Josh Spector: 00:26:17

every week for years and probably five or six years into

Josh Spector: 00:26:25

doing that, I I found myself saying to clients and people all

Josh Spector: 00:26:32

the time, because I'm a huge believer in email. I'm a huge

Josh Spector: 00:26:34

believer in newsletters. And one of the things I would say is

Josh Spector: 00:26:38

people have these preconceived notions about what a newsletter

Josh Spector: 00:26:41

is. So I would hear from people that they're like, I don't, I

Josh Spector: 00:26:43

don't know. I'm not a writer. I don't have time to do that. I

Josh Spector: 00:26:46

don't want to do that. Blah, blah blah. No more thing. Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:26:50

I know I need emails, but I'm just gonna, can't people just

Josh Spector: 00:26:52

follow me on social media, like all that kind of stuff. And I

Josh Spector: 00:26:55

would always be like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, you need

Josh Spector: 00:26:57

email. You need a newsletter. Blah, blah blah. And I would say

Josh Spector: 00:27:00

and I would say to them, I was like, but look, all you have to

Josh Spector: 00:27:04

do, you don't have to have that. You don't have to write this

Josh Spector: 00:27:07

long thing. You don't have to have this big, expansive thing.

Josh Spector: 00:27:10

All you have to do is send an email to people once a week, or

Josh Spector: 00:27:15

once every two weeks at a minimum, that has one thing that

Josh Spector: 00:27:20

they find valuable enough to want to open the next one. And I

Josh Spector: 00:27:24

remember talking to a comedian at the time who, like, didn't

Josh Spector: 00:27:27

want to deal with a newsletter, even though he needed an email

Josh Spector: 00:27:30

list to sell tickets to a show and all that kind of stuff,

Josh Spector: 00:27:33

didn't want to deal with it. And I was like, all you have to do

Josh Spector: 00:27:38

is pick one video that you you don't even have to create

Josh Spector: 00:27:40

anything. Pick one video that you found funny on YouTube,

Josh Spector: 00:27:44

where you were sitting around all week not doing anything,

Josh Spector: 00:27:47

because your fans want to know what you think is funny. All you

Josh Spector: 00:27:50

have to do is send a one line email that's like, Hey, this is

Josh Spector: 00:27:53

the funniest thing I saw this week. And I was like, they will

Josh Spector: 00:27:57

love it, and they will love it in part because it's so short.

Josh Spector: 00:28:02

And I would say this over and over again to different people,

Josh Spector: 00:28:05

right? I'd be like, all you need to do is, you know, literally,

Josh Spector: 00:28:07

it could be a sentence, and people would probably love that

Josh Spector: 00:28:09

it was a sentence and just a link, as long as it's valuable,

Josh Spector: 00:28:12

whatever. And then somewhere along the line I got in my head,

Josh Spector: 00:28:16

I was like, you know, I keep saying this to people, I wonder

Josh Spector: 00:28:19

if it's true. Like, I think it's true, but, like, no one's

Josh Spector: 00:28:22

actually doing it. And I was like, You know what? I'm gonna

Josh Spector: 00:28:25

I'm gonna do this. And so I started a sort of side

Josh Spector: 00:28:28

newsletter that I called the daily graph. I gave myself one

Josh Spector: 00:28:31

paragraph as a limit instead of one sentence. Okay? And I said,

Josh Spector: 00:28:35

Hey, I'm gonna start this side thing. And I decided, for

Josh Spector: 00:28:38

whatever reason, because I think at the same time, I was thinking

Josh Spector: 00:28:40

about sort of daily newsletters, and that's a whole other ball

Josh Spector: 00:28:43

game, obviously. And I was like, You know what? I'm gonna try

Josh Spector: 00:28:47

this daily, and I'm gonna send one paragraph a day. It's

Josh Spector: 00:28:50

usually gonna be a paragraph with a link to something, and

Josh Spector: 00:28:53

let's see what happens. And at the time, I think I had maybe 15

Josh Spector: 00:28:59

or 20,000 readers in my main newsletter. And so I told

Josh Spector: 00:29:02

people, I was like, Hey, I'm starting this side project. It's

Josh Spector: 00:29:05

called the daily graph. Like, it's going to be a paragraph a

Josh Spector: 00:29:07

day. Like, if you want to check it out, sign up. Here is a free

Josh Spector: 00:29:09

thing, whatever. You know, a few 100 people signed up for it, and

Josh Spector: 00:29:14

I started doing it. And it was easy to write because I was

Josh Spector: 00:29:17

just, you know, yes, it was daily, but it's like, not that

Josh Spector: 00:29:19

hard. I see stuff all the time, and I'm just linking to things

Josh Spector: 00:29:22

and whatever, and I would do it, and what I saw very quickly was

Josh Spector: 00:29:28

the open rates were big. The click through rates were

Josh Spector: 00:29:32

massive. I was getting more clicks on that one link than I

Josh Spector: 00:29:36

was on like, my full Sunday issue with, like, 1015,

Josh Spector: 00:29:39

different links in it, whatever combined, and people loved it.

Josh Spector: 00:29:44

And they loved it, not just because what I was sharing was

Josh Spector: 00:29:48

good, but they were like, I know that when I open it, it's going

Josh Spector: 00:29:51

to take me literally, like, 10 seconds to see the whole thing.

Josh Spector: 00:29:54

And if I'm interested in it, I'll click it and watch, and

Josh Spector: 00:29:57

maybe it's a video or a blog post or whatever, um. But they

Josh Spector: 00:30:00

loved that short format. So I was like, You know what this is?

Josh Spector: 00:30:03

This is actually working. And then I realized, I was like, oh,

Josh Spector: 00:30:07

you know what? Like, I'll include a little one line ad, so

Josh Spector: 00:30:09

it'll be a paragraph, and then a one line ad promoting something,

Josh Spector: 00:30:12

and those click rates were huge. And I was like, wow, like,

Josh Spector: 00:30:17

there's really something here. And so after a couple months of

Josh Spector: 00:30:19

sort of telling people like, Hey, there's this thing, and

Josh Spector: 00:30:21

people love it, go over there and sign I realized I was like,

Josh Spector: 00:30:24

you know, instead of trying to get people, instead of trying to

Josh Spector: 00:30:28

get my subscribers to go sign up, I could just say this is now

Josh Spector: 00:30:32

part of the main newsletter, and if you don't want let people opt

Josh Spector: 00:30:35

out instead of asking them to opt in, and I can overnight send

Josh Spector: 00:30:38

it to 20,000 people instead of 2000 and that's what I did. So

Josh Spector: 00:30:43

my newsletter now is every Monday through Friday, I send a

Josh Spector: 00:30:46

one paragraph newsletter, and then Sunday I have a longer a

Josh Spector: 00:30:50

longer newsletter.

Janice Porter: 00:30:52

So how did you get to 32,000 subscribers,

Josh Spector: 00:30:58

nine years of or six years of publishing every

Josh Spector: 00:31:01

week, and three years of publishing every weekday. You

Josh Spector: 00:31:05

know, look, they come. I've done a little bit of paid promotion

Josh Spector: 00:31:09

in the early days. I ran some Facebook ads and that kind of

Josh Spector: 00:31:12

stuff. But that is not, you know, I've got some from there

Josh Spector: 00:31:15

when I was getting going. But, you know, it's just people stick

Josh Spector: 00:31:20

around the newsletters, really good. It's really consistent.

Josh Spector: 00:31:25

It's now really focused on getting clients from content.

Josh Spector: 00:31:29

People know what they're gonna get. Again, all the things that

Josh Spector: 00:31:31

I was talking about before, about the type of content I

Josh Spector: 00:31:33

create also applies to the type of content that I share. So I,

Josh Spector: 00:31:37

when I curate stuff and I'm sharing, oh, you should see this

Josh Spector: 00:31:40

video that this person did, or this article, it's, again, all

Josh Spector: 00:31:43

actionable stuff that people can use immediately. It's never, I

Josh Spector: 00:31:48

don't cover news. I don't cover like, Oh, that was an

Josh Spector: 00:31:51

interesting rant about LinkedIn. Or No. Like, nobody can do

Josh Spector: 00:31:54

anything with that, right? I'm gonna share the like, how to

Josh Spector: 00:31:57

improve your LinkedIn profile, not the This is why LinkedIn

Josh Spector: 00:32:00

sucks, rant or whatever.

Janice Porter: 00:32:03

Yeah, actually, that was your

Josh Spector: 00:32:08

first what do you call your my skill session.

Janice Porter: 00:32:12

Skill sessions. That was your first one that I

Janice Porter: 00:32:14

that I saw after I signed

Josh Spector: 00:32:16

up. But yeah, so it's grown. It's grown again,

Josh Spector: 00:32:20

word of mouth, consistency, a little bit of paid ads in the

Josh Spector: 00:32:24

very beginning. Cross promotions are a really great way for

Josh Spector: 00:32:28

people that you know that don't cost money, if you can find

Josh Spector: 00:32:31

people with similar audiences and recommend back and forth.

Josh Spector: 00:32:35

But the other thing too, and I think this is also something

Josh Spector: 00:32:38

people don't realize, and I didn't realize this is, I guess,

Josh Spector: 00:32:42

one of the downsides of going daily. You know, every time you

Josh Spector: 00:32:46

send an email, no matter how good it is, a certain percentage

Josh Spector: 00:32:50

of people will unsubscribe, yeah, so I don't have a high

Josh Spector: 00:32:53

percentage of people that unsubscribe when I send, but I

Josh Spector: 00:32:57

now send six times a week, so every day, a bunch of people are

Josh Spector: 00:33:02

unsubscribing, just because that's how it works, which means

Josh Spector: 00:33:06

to grow or to I discover. I discovered this the hard way,

Josh Spector: 00:33:09

right? I realized I was at a point where I was like, why it

Josh Spector: 00:33:12

feels like this should be growing more, right? And then I

Josh Spector: 00:33:14

was like, oh, like, I might lose, you know, if I send to

Josh Spector: 00:33:18

30,000 people, I might lose 50 subscribers a day, which means I

Josh Spector: 00:33:22

got to add 50 subscribers a day just to break even. So that is

Josh Spector: 00:33:27

the one thing about the frequency. Whereas if I was only

Josh Spector: 00:33:30

sending weekly, I'd lose 50 a week. Yeah, now I lose 300 a

Josh Spector: 00:33:34

week. Or would it become, it gets to a point where it's hard

Josh Spector: 00:33:37

to grow? So that was a little just from a mindset perspective.

Josh Spector: 00:33:40

And this actually leads to a bigger point, too, but I had to

Josh Spector: 00:33:43

wrap my head around, okay, these other people that I was growing

Josh Spector: 00:33:47

at a similar rate to, they're now at 40,000 50,000 100,000

Josh Spector: 00:33:52

subscribers, and I'm kind of flat at 30,000 it's like, Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:33:56

but I'm kind of flat for a reason. And having to remind

Josh Spector: 00:33:59

myself, like, I say, with all content like, what's really the

Josh Spector: 00:34:02

goal here? Right? The goal here is not for me to have as many

Josh Spector: 00:34:05

newsletter subscribers as possible. It's to attract the

Josh Spector: 00:34:08

right people, convert them into customers and clients and that

Josh Spector: 00:34:11

kind of stuff. And it's working very well for that. And so, you

Josh Spector: 00:34:14

know, yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:34:15

I really feel as though you are completely and

Janice Porter: 00:34:21

utterly confident in the work that you're doing, and you're

Janice Porter: 00:34:27

you don't care what the rules are. In a sense, you make your

Janice Porter: 00:34:30

own rules. And it's always it's worked for you. It's working for

Janice Porter: 00:34:34

you. I just feel like you have a different approach than most

Janice Porter: 00:34:38

people that I've ever that I talked to very much. You know, I

Janice Porter: 00:34:42

don't know you don't have the mainstream approach, and I think

Janice Porter: 00:34:47

that's what I'm attracted to, in the sense that it's something I

Janice Porter: 00:34:50

haven't like. I love the way you space. You have white space in

Janice Porter: 00:34:54

your in your posts, and I and you do it in everything that you

Janice Porter: 00:34:58

do. And it just a bunch of stuff that. It that I noticed that I'm

Janice Porter: 00:35:02

I'm very observant, I'm very curious, and so I've gone down

Janice Porter: 00:35:05

this rabbit hole now trying learning about how you operate,

Janice Porter: 00:35:09

because I find it's, it's unique and refreshing actually. But

Janice Porter: 00:35:15

first

Josh Spector: 00:35:15

of all, thank thank you very much. But there's

Josh Spector: 00:35:17

two things about that that I think are worth pointing out,

Josh Spector: 00:35:19

because I think it's helpful for other people as well. One of

Josh Spector: 00:35:23

those things is I understand that doing things in a unique

Josh Spector: 00:35:33

way or a different way, even if it's doesn't have to be super

Josh Spector: 00:35:36

complicated, even if it's like, oh, you know, no one else is

Josh Spector: 00:35:38

sending one paragraph, so I'm going to send one paragraph,

Josh Spector: 00:35:41

right? Is an easy way to differentiate yourself and help

Josh Spector: 00:35:46

you stand out and not get lost in my so I understand that

Josh Spector: 00:35:49

unique is a competitive advantage. So again, that's why

Josh Spector: 00:35:52

I said all my formats are designed to be a little it can

Josh Spector: 00:35:55

also make it a little more challenging to message and for

Josh Spector: 00:35:57

people to understand what the hell you're doing. But it's an

Josh Spector: 00:36:01

advantage. And then the other thing, it's funny, when you

Josh Spector: 00:36:03

said, like, you know, I operate as if there, there are no rules,

Josh Spector: 00:36:06

and I do, to a certain extent, one of my favorite things,

Josh Spector: 00:36:12

there's a scene in there's a scene in the movie The Matrix,

Josh Spector: 00:36:16

where, you know, Keanu Reeves is they're trying, like, trying to

Josh Spector: 00:36:19

wrap us. They're trying to, like, teach him and wrap his

Josh Spector: 00:36:22

head around, like, what's going on. And he goes and, like, sees

Josh Spector: 00:36:25

that kid or whatever, and they're telling him to, like,

Josh Spector: 00:36:27

bend the spoon with his mind. And he's like, oh, you know,

Josh Spector: 00:36:29

he's struggling to do and he can't do it. And the kid, or the

Josh Spector: 00:36:33

whoever it is that tells him is, like, you know, it's, he's some

Josh Spector: 00:36:37

the line is something along where he goes, like, no, there

Josh Spector: 00:36:42

is no spoon. And then it's like, once, it's like, you need to

Josh Spector: 00:36:46

wrap your head around and I do think, like, I that line always

Josh Spector: 00:36:49

sticks with me, and I think in how I look at all of these

Josh Spector: 00:36:52

things, it's not that I set out to break the rules, right? It's

Josh Spector: 00:36:57

that I try to remind myself, like, there are no rules. Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:37:00

like I can my newsletter can be I can send it as often, and it

Josh Spector: 00:37:05

could be as long or short as I want, and I can do whatever I

Josh Spector: 00:37:08

want with my podcast. That's the beauty of this whole sort of

Josh Spector: 00:37:11

Internet entrepreneur world.

Janice Porter: 00:37:14

Well, it is, but I know that I've struggled with

Janice Porter: 00:37:17

different parts of it along the way based on something that

Janice Porter: 00:37:21

always gets in my way is, oh, well, is that the right thing to

Janice Porter: 00:37:24

do? Or what would people think? Or, you know, the stuff that I

Janice Porter: 00:37:27

don't see you doing at all. You're you walk to your own beat

Janice Porter: 00:37:31

of your own drum. And I love that, yeah and yeah, like, I

Janice Porter: 00:37:37

haven't read your or, I guess I have read your I haven't read

Janice Porter: 00:37:41

your Sunday newsletter yet. I don't think I've only seen the

Janice Porter: 00:37:44

one, the one, one paragraph ones, but then it got me

Janice Porter: 00:37:48

thinking. So I do a newsletter once a week, and I have it set

Janice Porter: 00:37:54

up in two sections, really, with an intro that's more personal,

Janice Porter: 00:37:59

that's sort of a note from me, and then I think, Well, should I

Janice Porter: 00:38:02

only have one thing in my newsletter? Or should because

Janice Porter: 00:38:05

they're both related. I like, you know, my podcast is called

Janice Porter: 00:38:08

relationships rule. Well, my newsletter is called

Janice Porter: 00:38:13

relationships matter, and one section is LinkedIn matters, and

Janice Porter: 00:38:18

the other is stay, staying connected matters. And those are

Janice Porter: 00:38:22

kind of double entendres, I guess. And, and so I write

Janice Porter: 00:38:26

something about LinkedIn, but usually it's from a teacher

Janice Porter: 00:38:29

perspective, with go, try it. You know, here's something you

Janice Porter: 00:38:32

can do, or you haven't done for a while, or whatever, and then

Janice Porter: 00:38:36

I'm always talking about how you can stay connected and build

Janice Porter: 00:38:42

relationship and nurture relationships in the other part.

Janice Porter: 00:38:44

But is that too much, like people I get in my own head?

Janice Porter: 00:38:48

Well, that's, yeah. I

Josh Spector: 00:38:49

mean, there's no there's no again, there's no

Josh Spector: 00:38:52

definitive sort of right or wrong. So, like, if I was

Josh Spector: 00:38:55

working with you, like my my question to you would be, you

Josh Spector: 00:38:59

know, why are you doing a newsletter at all? What do you

Josh Spector: 00:39:01

want to have happen? Like, what's, what's the end goal?

Josh Spector: 00:39:04

Yeah, exactly, yeah. And then we would work backwards from that,

Josh Spector: 00:39:09

right? Because then you go, Okay, well, is this? Does only

Josh Spector: 00:39:14

having one thing help me accomplish that? Just having two

Josh Spector: 00:39:17

things help me accomplish that? Does it not matter either way.

Josh Spector: 00:39:21

Like, what you know so like, but I think it's always got to come

Josh Spector: 00:39:24

from, I always sort of reverse engineer and work backwards from

Josh Spector: 00:39:28

that, right? Like, what do we want to happen from this thing?

Josh Spector: 00:39:33

And then also taking into account, obviously, what you

Josh Spector: 00:39:36

want to do and what you want to create, and what you know, it's

Josh Spector: 00:39:40

not, you know, I don't. If I decided I want to do a long form

Josh Spector: 00:39:47

newsletter, and I don't want to do this short thing anymore, I

Josh Spector: 00:39:52

would then go, Okay, I want to do a long form newsletter. I

Josh Spector: 00:39:55

want it to accomplish this goal. Now, what do I have to do to

Josh Spector: 00:39:59

make that happen? Yeah, right. Like again that goes back to,

Josh Spector: 00:40:02

there's infinite paths. You know, it's just alignment and

Josh Spector: 00:40:07

being strategic about how you approach it.

Janice Porter: 00:40:10

Yeah, you definitely present food for

Janice Porter: 00:40:13

thought most. So I think it's time to wrap up. And I want to

Janice Porter: 00:40:20

know if you will perhaps offer my listeners if they want to

Janice Porter: 00:40:25

start shifting their content towards, I guess, not selfish

Janice Porter: 00:40:35

goal, but a goal that makes sense for their business, right?

Janice Porter: 00:40:39

Like you speak about that all the time, right? You just,

Janice Porter: 00:40:41

you've said it several times on here. My goal is to get more

Janice Porter: 00:40:44

clients to do well. I think most of us want that. So at the same

Janice Porter: 00:40:49

time, though, we want it to come to feel that it's building

Janice Porter: 00:40:53

relationship with people, that they're building trust. We're

Janice Porter: 00:40:56

building trust with them and so on. What's one simple step that

Janice Porter: 00:40:59

they can take? So I'm

Josh Spector: 00:41:01

gonna give you a simple step. I'm gonna give you

Josh Spector: 00:41:03

a little mini rant about selfish because I think people, I think

Josh Spector: 00:41:06

people need to hear that, right? Hear this. So a lot of people

Josh Spector: 00:41:13

are get very squeamish about self promotion. Even though they

Josh Spector: 00:41:19

want to get business out of it, they get very I don't want to be

Josh Spector: 00:41:22

that person. I don't want to be salesy. I don't want to annoy

Josh Spector: 00:41:25

people. I don't want to whatever. Self promotion is not

Josh Spector: 00:41:30

a selfish act. It is a selfless act if what you are offering

Josh Spector: 00:41:37

actually provides value and helps people solve problems. The

Josh Spector: 00:41:41

reason people get squeamish and uncomfortable promoting their

Josh Spector: 00:41:45

stuff is one of two things. One, deep down, they know what they

Josh Spector: 00:41:49

sell and what they offer doesn't actually provide people value,

Josh Spector: 00:41:53

or they're really not sure it does, if that's not you, and you

Josh Spector: 00:41:58

know that what you do genuinely helps. Doesn't have to help

Josh Spector: 00:42:02

everybody, but genuinely helps a specific group of people. Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:42:05

and the only reason you feel bad about promoting it and talking

Josh Spector: 00:42:10

about it and telling people about it is your own insecurity,

Josh Spector: 00:42:14

and that may be hard, but it's not a good reason not to promote

Josh Spector: 00:42:17

it, and it's actually selfish to prevent people who could benefit

Josh Spector: 00:42:21

from what you have to offer and that you could help solve their

Josh Spector: 00:42:24

problems and change their life, but they don't know about it

Josh Spector: 00:42:27

because you're too insecure to tell them about it. So I think

Josh Spector: 00:42:31

if people really get honest with themselves and look, there are

Josh Spector: 00:42:34

some people, it's like they know their products not really that

Josh Spector: 00:42:36

good, yeah. But if you truly believe that your product is

Josh Spector: 00:42:41

good and product is helpful, again, for specific people, then

Josh Spector: 00:42:44

you really should not feel bad about promoting it. So that's

Josh Spector: 00:42:47

the sort of first kind of overarching thing. The second

Josh Spector: 00:42:51

thing is, once you get past that and you're like, Okay, I'm, I'm,

Josh Spector: 00:42:54

I'm, I'm comfortable telling the world about this. You know, my

Josh Spector: 00:42:58

most basic tip would be to integrate that promotion into

Josh Spector: 00:43:03

your content and make it so that the content and the promotion is

Josh Spector: 00:43:07

valuable even if someone doesn't buy so I'll give you an I'll

Josh Spector: 00:43:11

give you a couple different examples of again, it's going to

Josh Spector: 00:43:14

be different for everyone, but here's a couple examples of how

Josh Spector: 00:43:16

to do that. If you if I have an email list or even on social

Josh Spector: 00:43:20

media, and I want to promote my new course, right? Version one,

Josh Spector: 00:43:24

the one that's going to make everyone uncomfortable and your

Josh Spector: 00:43:26

audience isn't going to care, is you're just like, hey, my new

Josh Spector: 00:43:29

course is out. Buy my new course. It's so amazing.

Josh Spector: 00:43:31

Everyone says it's amazing, you're going to love it. Blah,

Josh Spector: 00:43:33

blah, blah, right? But instead of that, you could go, Hey,

Josh Spector: 00:43:37

here's an excerpt from my new course that shows you how to do

Josh Spector: 00:43:40

a thing. Take turn. The best way to sell a product is with the

Josh Spector: 00:43:44

product. So stop hiding everything. Take a take a part

Josh Spector: 00:43:48

of it. Show them the the actual content. Provide value to them,

Josh Spector: 00:43:53

whether they buy or not. You don't feel bad about it. The

Josh Spector: 00:43:56

irony is, it's the best promotion you could do, because

Josh Spector: 00:43:59

they go, Wow. She just showed me a two minute clip from the

Josh Spector: 00:44:01

course. I want more of the course, and even the people that

Josh Spector: 00:44:04

are never gonna buy it aren't gonna be mad at you for

Josh Spector: 00:44:07

promoting to them, because you're not just promoting,

Josh Spector: 00:44:10

you're actually giving them valuable advice. The same thing

Josh Spector: 00:44:14

with, again, like, you know, with my podcast or whatever,

Josh Spector: 00:44:18

right? Like, I can promote my member. I can do an entire

Josh Spector: 00:44:22

episode promoting my membership, but really, I'm just letting you

Josh Spector: 00:44:25

watch three bits of advice that I gave to people in the

Josh Spector: 00:44:28

membership.

Janice Porter: 00:44:30

I love it, yeah. So that's the easiest

Josh Spector: 00:44:32

that's the easiest way to do it is to sort of

Josh Spector: 00:44:34

integrate it into it. And then one other thing, especially with

Josh Spector: 00:44:37

email and newsletters, that you can do, another mistake people

Josh Spector: 00:44:40

make is, let's say you send your newsletter, and what they'll do

Josh Spector: 00:44:43

is they'll wait to promote their thing to like the bottom so they

Josh Spector: 00:44:46

have the newsletter, they want to give them all the value, and

Josh Spector: 00:44:48

then at the very bottom there's like, Oh, and by the way, you

Josh Spector: 00:44:50

can hire me to do X, Y and Z or whatever, right? Not the end of

Josh Spector: 00:44:53

the world, but not a great approach, because people just

Josh Spector: 00:44:55

start to tune that out. First of all, the only people that see it

Josh Spector: 00:44:58

are the ones that get to the bottom of. Whatever you wrote,

Josh Spector: 00:45:01

but they also sort of start to tune it out, and whatever what

Josh Spector: 00:45:04

you want to do instead is, you want to incorporate a subtle

Josh Spector: 00:45:09

reference to what you're coaching or whatever you're

Josh Spector: 00:45:11

offering within the context of the content itself, and ideally

Josh Spector: 00:45:15

towards the beginning. And a really easy way to do this is,

Josh Spector: 00:45:19

let's say that you were in your newsletter, gonna share a tip

Josh Spector: 00:45:23

about how to use LinkedIn to do whatever, right? So in your

Josh Spector: 00:45:28

newsletter, you know, you have, in the beginning of it, you're

Josh Spector: 00:45:30

writing about, you know, oh, and then, you know, one of the most

Josh Spector: 00:45:33

common mistakes I see on LinkedIn is such and such,

Josh Spector: 00:45:37

right? You really need to be doing this instead. And then you

Josh Spector: 00:45:41

might just have a line in parentheses that says, I, you

Josh Spector: 00:45:47

know, I gave this advice to a client last week, and it changed

Josh Spector: 00:45:50

everything. And to a client last week is a link to your service

Josh Spector: 00:45:56

page. Got it? That's it, and what's going to happen people

Josh Spector: 00:46:00

that reading it know that you work with clients, know that

Josh Spector: 00:46:03

this is the kind of thing you help with. They can click the

Josh Spector: 00:46:06

link to go see and learn more, and you can see who clicked the

Josh Spector: 00:46:09

link, which tells you who's curious. And then you can decide

Josh Spector: 00:46:13

maybe you want to do a little more outreach, maybe you want to

Josh Spector: 00:46:15

do a whatever. And you can do that in every issue, right? It

Josh Spector: 00:46:19

doesn't feel self promotional, whatever, but you're just

Josh Spector: 00:46:22

working in these references so that, you know, if you're doing

Josh Spector: 00:46:25

something about, you know, another, another thing about how

Josh Spector: 00:46:28

to build relationships you're like, you know, one of the most

Josh Spector: 00:46:31

common things I say in my coaching calls with clients is

Josh Spector: 00:46:34

blah, blah, blah, and then you just lead into your regular

Josh Spector: 00:46:37

thing. But coaching calls with clients is a link to your

Josh Spector: 00:46:39

service page. Really easy way to

Janice Porter: 00:46:40

promote that's very subtle, and that's a great

Janice Porter: 00:46:43

tip. Actually, I like it a lot. Thank you. Thank you, Josh. We

Janice Porter: 00:46:47

covered a lot of ground, and I so appreciate it. And this was

Janice Porter: 00:46:51

with me, not doing an intro call with you, which for me, was was

Janice Porter: 00:46:56

uncomfortable.

Josh Spector: 00:46:57

I know I'm sorry, but I appreciate that. Oh, great

Josh Spector: 00:47:00

questions,

Janice Porter: 00:47:00

though. Yeah, I know you forced me to to be

Janice Porter: 00:47:04

confident enough in myself to know see, right? So it's all

Janice Porter: 00:47:08

good. I've been doing it for long enough I should know

Janice Porter: 00:47:10

better, but it was just my take on not having not met you

Janice Porter: 00:47:13

before. So anyway, thank you. Thank you. And I hope that my

Janice Porter: 00:47:18

audience, I know that they will benefit from the things that you

Janice Porter: 00:47:22

shared today. And I would encourage you, audience, if you

Janice Porter: 00:47:25

like what you heard, to please go check out Josh's website, his

Janice Porter: 00:47:30

newsletter. He it's easy to find him. His sign up pieces, Josh,

Janice Porter: 00:47:35

where's the best place for them to find you? And I'll put it in

Janice Porter: 00:47:37

and I will put that post in the show notes too.

Josh Spector: 00:47:39

Sure. So my websites, Josh specter.com, my

Josh Spector: 00:47:44

you can sign up for my newsletter, for the

Josh Spector: 00:47:45

interested.com/subscribe and if you want to know about my

Josh Spector: 00:47:49

clients from content membership, that's Josh spector.com/program

Josh Spector: 00:47:54

and then my podcast is also called clients from content,

Josh Spector: 00:47:56

which you can find on any of the podcast places.

Janice Porter: 00:47:59

And Josh is very generous with his with his

Janice Porter: 00:48:02

material, as soon as you say hello, he'll send you something

Janice Porter: 00:48:06

if you want

Josh Spector: 00:48:10

it. Yeah, you sign up for the newsletter and you

Josh Spector: 00:48:12

are going to get a surprise welcome gift.

Janice Porter: 00:48:13

Yeah, so it's all it's all good, and I so

Janice Porter: 00:48:16

appreciate it. So if you're ready to stop creating content

Janice Porter: 00:48:19

for attention and start creating it to get results and to build

Janice Porter: 00:48:24

relationships, then this conversation could possibly be

Janice Porter: 00:48:27

your blueprint. Much appreciated. Remember to stay

Janice Porter: 00:48:32

connected and be remembered and Josh. A pleasure to have you on.

Janice Porter: 00:48:36

Thank you. Yeah,

Josh Spector: 00:48:37

thanks for having me. You.